Comments on: Wednesday Ratings: Criminal Minds, CSI: NY and World Series Lead Night

By: Holly

Holly — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:29:54 +0000

I think star power can get people to tune in initially. I know that I tried Cane largely because of the stellar cast (didn’t stay though because the writing left a lot to be desired). S would have a point if the numbers were low from the beginning, but PD’s problem isn’t that people didn’t try it, it’s that people who have tried it didn’t stay with it.

By: Julia

Julia — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:19:42 +0000

S, I disagree. I don’t think TV shows need star power the way movies do. Whatever reason people aren’t watching PD, it’s not because a big name is not in it.

By: S.

S. — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:12:06 +0000

PD is a great show with adequate actors. That is the problem, the random viewer that tunes in doesn’t stay to watch that person, even if they missed half the show. They all lack that “it” quality that makes an good actor a star. Sometimes even a bad actor a star…

All the beauty of PD, the lighting, the sets is as expensive to set up as the special effects of TSCC.The bee scene probably cost more than an explosion.So to offset costs WBTV went cheap on the cast. Not that they aren’t doing a good job, they are, but the cheap cast without star quality, is now costing them dearly. They can’t keep transient viewers on long enough to get hooked.

By: Johnthemon

Johnthemon — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:40:49 +0000

well it’s clear that every new show on NBC has failed except Knight Rider. Oh and I don’t remember who said it, but I doubt PD costs as much as Lost.

By: Matt

Matt — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:18:19 +0000

Pushing Daises is a gem of a show with its talented actors and actresses and tremendously gifted writers, but the only things that’s might save it now are its critical accolades and a possible move to Fridays at 8pm. The only problem with that is that both Wife Swap and Supernanny continue to grow in the ratings each week. So, a move may not be an option at all. I’m also wondering about several of the reality ratings hits ABC developed during the strike shortened tv season. Oprah’s Big Give, Here Come The Newlyweds, and Bruno vs Carrie Ann: Dance War all delievered solid ratings. Dance War would fit in nicely on Tuesdays before DWTS Elimination show and the Newlyweds show would be a great lead in to Private Practice, the only solid show on Wednesday nights for ABC. Dirty Sexy Money has potential to close out the night but LOST can always fill that void if it fails.

By: Holly

Holly — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:36:50 +0000

Were we talking about two different shows? I’ve never seen life and haven’t seen L&O forever, so I think I guessed the wrong show.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:31:33 +0000

I’m more excited about the peacocks favoring Life over Lipstick Jungle. I’m sure Bill will be happy with the return of L & O, but even last year the original was a franchise “also-ran” compared to offspring SVU.

By: Holly

Holly — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:23:53 +0000

It will be interesting to see how it does. It started out really well last season, but it was up against strike-induced repeats. With the exception of Jessie Martin’s last episode, it didn’t fare as well once CSI: NY came back (dropping to 8.5 million/2.6). Still, that’s better than a lot of what NBC has this season. It will loose to CSI: NY, but it will also hurt it.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:08:34 +0000

That’s awesome! Unlike some, I *like* the new and improved wacky boss.

By: Holly

Holly — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:06:18 +0000

Looks like CSI: NY might actually be getting some competition this fall:
http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/nbc-schedule-sh.html

By: digitalred93

digitalred93 — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:21:42 +0000

My two most favorite shows this year are Pushing Daisies and Bones. Both shows are on at the same time which means I have to download Bones on ITunes (PD begs for a big 27″ screen). I’m particularly worried for PD because it’s numbers jumped up when Bones went on hiatus two weeks ago. I have to wonder if they share the same audience. (Bones has been drop kicked into more different time slots than any other series, IMHO).

By: Rob R

Rob R — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:21:13 +0000

CBS has got to be delighted with “Old Christine” and “Gary Unmarried.” It is very unusual for ratings to keep going up week over week. It was brilliant counter-programming and they are establishing a comedy block on Wednesday as they always wanted. It seems CBS’s only problems are “Worst Week” and “The Ex-List,” but those shows would probably be safe if they aired on one of the other networks.

By: Mike G.

Mike G. — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:16:10 +0000

LG: Thanks for the insights. With that said, it now completely mystifies how people are then reaching conclusions that a show like PD or TSCC is more money than another show (the other show is never mentioned in said postings), especially since no one is offering a cost per episode. Although, I can understand about the special effects being more in a show like TSCC. I would just love to have a true basis of comparison. It seems like a sweeping generalization to say that one show costs more than another given the fact that there are so many variables involved.

By: Holly

Holly — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:22:07 +0000

Liah, While I do not care for Pushing Daisies, I don’t dislike it either. I do understand that there are people who do enjoy the show, but the fact remains that the numbers are just too low to justify keeping it on the air.

By: Julia

Julia — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:22:36 +0000

Liah, calm down. Holly is not “hating” on PD. She is discussing the ratings, which are not pretty at all. I am a fan of the show and would say the exact same things.

By: Liah Terkie

Liah Terkie — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:09:12 +0000

(not)sorry for all these posts,
i had to make a small correction.

By: Liah Terkie

Liah Terkie — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:05:00 +0000

Ok, first off:

WHO IS THIS CHICK HOLLY?! SHE NEEDS TO STOP HATING ON MY PD. OK, HOLLY? JUST TAKE SOME MIDOL.

Second,

I think this Rob guy is an idiot, personally. He doesnt know EXACTLY what the networks are going to do with their shows, these networks have not made statements yet or anything. So you can take some midol too!

By: Liah Terkie

Liah Terkie — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:00:49 +0000

Ok, first off:

WHO IS THIS CHICK HOLLY?! SHE NEEDS TO STOP HATING ON MY PD. OK, HOLLY? JUST TAKE SOME MIDOL.

Second,

I think this Rob guy is an idiot, personally. He doesnt know EXACTLY what the networks are going to do with their shows, these networks have made statements yet or anything. So you can take some midol too!

By: Harry

Harry — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:57:54 +0000

Even though Lipstick Jungle is an NBC Universal production I would be very surprised if NBC kept it during November sweeps. Maybe Medium or Law&Order might get an earlier launch date.

As far as the young male demo that Knight Rider delivers is very important to all networks since those demos are considered very difficult to get. But in Rider’s case they are so puny it doesn’t even matter. But then again is not as if NBC has anything else to put there.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:30:11 +0000

LG, for what it’s worth, we appreciate the input.

By: LG

LG — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:14:01 +0000

It would seem that I have way too much time on my hands.

By: LG

LG — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:13:13 +0000

@Mike G. – As far as it goes for production cost on a one hour show, it’s hard to put an “average” price tag on it, cause it really depends on the show. First and foremost, film or digital? That’s seems to be the question these days, it makes a substantial difference. It also depends on cast size, as well as “stars”. If you have a large cast or a “name” on the show, thats gonna jack the price up. Even for people you wouldn’t consider to be famous. As much as SAG likes to complain they make pretty good money. Another concern of course is Special Effects/VFX (if your talking a show like 24 or Heroes, that makes a difference. Unfortunately, explosions and super powers are not cheap.) You’ve also gotta count the producers/creators in the mix, the more shows under their belt, the more money they get.

Bottom line…For a 1HR Drama that shoots on film, I’d say BALLPARK around 1.2 to 1.5 per episode. On digital maybe 950K-1.2. Some shows go up to 2.0 of even 2.5 million, hard to believe but its true. Again, BALLPARK based on shows I’ve worked on.

It also depends on the relationship b/w the production and the broadcasting companies. On a show produced and broadcast on fox like 24, you can consider a chunck of the budget as being soft money, meaning, if the show rents space/equipment from company thats broadcasting it, it’s basically moving money around, not spending it. When the broaddcasting company “buys” the final cut, well you get the idea. On the other hand, you get a show produced by one company and broadcast on another it’s a different story. Hope this makes sense.

By: Quiddity

Quiddity — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:43:36 +0000

Unfortunately I think as simple a mistake as not airing a preview for PD last week hurt it big time. I don’t know about the rest of you, but if I watch a TV show this time of year and there’s no preview for next week’s episode, what do I think? That there won’t be a new episode next week. I’m big enough a fan of PD to know exactly whether there will be a new ep each week, but I’m sure casual fans don’t do that. If it was for example Fringe, a show I think is okay, but not great, I probably wouldn’t do the extra due diligence to make sure a new ep was on the next week.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:18:24 +0000

@Julia, generally I really don’t think the performance of Pushing Daisies and DSM helps out Eli Stone much. Eli has a much better lead in than DSM, and Eli had about a 10% better 18-49 rating. It might help though because depending on what ABC has in its development queue it may not be as quick to nix *all* of them, but soley based on ratings (no comment on quality) all three shows seem to merit cancelation.

By: Rob

Rob — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:05:30 +0000

before everyone starts waving the cancelation flag on pushing daisies remember what James Hibberd said about daisies. Chances are it will get a run on a different date probably friday where if it can put up the same numbers would probably get a renewal.

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:44:36 +0000

Gary Unmarried just received an order for 4 more scripts. It’s also getting a one-shot run behind 2 1/2 Men. Next Monday will be all-repeats for the CBS comedies, so it will be a rerun of GU behind a rerun of 2 1/2 Men, but that will still give it a better lead-in (and sampling) than it’s ever gotten on Wednesday.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/cbs-orders-four.html

By: Mike G.

Mike G. — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:32:07 +0000

What exactly is the “average” cost for an hour long drama? I’ve seen numerous comments about how certain shows are more expensive than others, but no one has ever produced an average price tag that these shows are exceeding. So, PD is more expensive than what?

By: Alde

Alde — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:24:09 +0000

PD was deservedly among the top award contenders for last Golden Globe/Emmy nominations, 3 Globe noms and additionally several Emmy nominations from which it won 3, one of which was Directing. When you take the comedy genre specifically as which it is promoted as, there weren’t many who did as best on their first year.

Facts speak for themselves. As does the obvious detail that american people wouldn’t notice quality even if it would bite them from behind. At this point I wouldn’t blame networks anymore, they can’t help if “entertainment” they provide goes to deaf ears…

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:16:51 +0000

^^And Lost does well in the ratings. I can’t say the same about PD.

By: Cool

Cool — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:13:33 +0000

False alarm.. it was a joke! about ABC pulling PD.

btw, the productions cost for PD maybe are the same for Lost but Lost had won Emmys and Golden Globes, Best Drama and Best Actor the last year. I cant say the same about PD.

By: Gusar

Gusar — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:08:46 +0000

I have an mp3 on my disk, too bad I’ve no idea where I got it. Anyway, it’s an interview with Josh Friedman (showrunner of Terminator) at Comic-Con, and he’s saying that Terminator and Pushing Daisies have the same budget. Is it possible? And what does it mean, that the TSCC budget is low or that the PD budget is high, or both?

By: Julia

Julia — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:02:24 +0000

Robert, Bill, and Julia, I know that we have already talked about the Eli Stone ratings yesterday. Well, now since you got the latest results on Dirty Sexy Money and the Pushing Daisies ratings/key demos, wouldn’t you say that Eli Stone did better last night in its second episode than both of these shows? Are the chances looking better for Eli Stone right now?

By: Joe

Joe — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:45:50 +0000

I think it’s a shame that a good show like Pushing Daisies is about to get canceled while a really crappy show like Knight Rider is still pulling ratings that I cannot explain it’s just really messed up what shows people watch and do not watch these days

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:43:45 +0000

Kyle, Everything I’ve read indicates that Pushing Daisies is quite expensive (compared to regular hour-long dramas).

By: cesarrr

cesarrr — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:41:35 +0000

I’m really happy that OLD CHRISTINE is gaining viewers. I really want it to keep this 8 million or even grow. That depends on CBS, I hope they keep it in one place and stop changing its timeslot.
Even if the other show (gary unmarried) doesn’t survive, I hope CBS keeps the wednesday comedy block.

By: Kyle C

Kyle C — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:37:43 +0000

Though ratings-wise things are scary for Pushing Daisies, ABC does have a displayed history of keeping shows they like on the air, as they did w/ the later seasons of Alias. Creatively PD is a good contender for Emmy nods, which is good PR for ABC.

Also, there is the production costs to consider. Judging from the small cast of core characters & non-dependence on flashy effects, my guess is the per episode costs are nowhere near as much as Knight Rider, Lost, or Heroes. I wouldn’t give PD the final touch of death just yet.

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:36:23 +0000

I know Pushing Daisies will be off the air Nov. 5th because the DWTS results show is pushed to Wednesday for the election. The week after that, there is an awards show on (CMAs?). Last I read, there was still a question of whether it will be pulled next week for the Obama infomercial.

By: Realm Reader

Realm Reader — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:32:59 +0000

A couple of shows I like are on the low end of the renew/cancel index this year. You pretty much have to give up on studios keeping a show on the air just because you are a fan though. They aren’t purposedly trying to kill good shows, they just follow the Nielsen ratings. Still when shows like Family Guy and Firefly do so well after being cancelled it really makes you wonder if Nielsen doesn’t have some problems tracking younger viewers. The recent heavy skewing of some channels to only older viewers also makes me doubt the ratings. Still until something better comes around that’s what television studios will use. In the meantime I will just have to get used to Bryan Fuller never getting a show past it’s second season.

By: NukeTheFridge

NukeTheFridge — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:27:17 +0000

I think the thing that people need to understand is that the writer’s strike did irrepairable dammage to the networks. Just like the strike in the early 90′s that saw ratings take a permanent 20% hit, I think we have seen another 20% hit. When you give people an excuse to find something better to do with their time, like they did during the strike, a good portion of them won’t come back. People love their routines.

That said, I think you are wrong about Eli Stone and DSM. Eli Stone worked well getting on average 70 – 75% of Grey’s audience. That would translate to about 10-11 million viewers now. Eli Stone fits better after Grey’s. DSM does fit better after DH. It would probably do at least as well after DH that B&S does. ABC should move the Dancing results show back to 8, and put B&S on at 9, followed by Private Practice (though I think it will never be a hit…people only watch for Addison, and that will eventually fade away.) Daisies is dead. ABC needs to start over on Wed.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:21:45 +0000

Cool, I’m not surprised, but I want to see a link!

By: Cool

Cool — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:20:55 +0000

In some forums are saying that ABC has pulled Pushing Daisies!

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:19:43 +0000

Tom, “bill… (unless someone already mentioned this) the 2006 world series game 1 was a saturday… helps to know that when comparing.”

I mentioned it in my original comment

By: the128boy

the128boy — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:06:45 +0000

Wow, seriously, whooda thunk that Knight Rider would be NBCs most promising new show of the season!

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:59:03 +0000

Steve, This is a website devoted to talking about ratings. Yes, I was referring to their simply abysmal numbers. As to Pushing Daisies: I tried it, but it was far too strong on the whimsy for me. I felt like I was watching Dora the Explorer or The Wiggles.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:51:15 +0000

“Pushing Daisies, Dirty Sexy Money (which will drop in the finals due to ABC’s typical overrun), and Lipstick Jungle all deserve to be canceled.”

DESERVE? As in their quality is not good enough for network TV? I’m sorry, but Pushing Daisies is far and away one of the most creative, innovative, beautifully shot, amazingly written shows that’s been on Network Television in years. And the fact that you could say that in reference to its quality really undermines pretty much any opinion you could have.

If you are referring solely to the ratings, that’s one thing. On numbers, it makes logical sense to cancel the show. But in terms of quality, a show that has such a beautiful message and such uplifting writing — when compared to some of the clinical, anesthetic, meaningless crime shows on CBS that all pull huge numbers — is significant. And it’s sad that this country can’t appreciate that. Very sad.

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:38:24 +0000

Debbie, I was referring to last night, when Bones wasn’t on. You are right, Bones is normally a strong player on Wednesday.

By: Debbie

Debbie — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:33:42 +0000

“CBS is the only network to reach 8 million viewers for any show.” Except for Fox with Bones, before its baseball-induced hiatus. If I recall, the last two episodes shown had over 10 million total viewers, having gone up pretty steadily from the season premiere of over 9 million.

I hope it can continue to do well when it returns after the World Series.

By: tom

tom — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:29:18 +0000

bill… (unless someone already mentioned this) the 2006 world series game 1 was a saturday… helps to know that when comparing.

By: ABCFanatic

ABCFanatic — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:09:07 +0000

America please save Dirty Sexy Money!

REMEMBER

WEDNESDAY 10/9C on ABC START HERE

By: Andrea

Andrea — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:08:49 +0000

With the Series numbers, TSCC is going to look really bad in next week’s index.