Comments on: Dollhouse premiere is 28th in total DVR viewing, 8th in % viewing on DVR

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:55:02 +0000

mindy, no matter what kind of DVRs the ~20,000 Nielsen families have, their viewing is counted in the ratings.

By: Julia

Julia — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:54:40 +0000

All DVRs, Mindy.

By: mindy

mindy — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:51:35 +0000

?????? ….Maybe this is a dumb question…. ????
but, can some one please help?

Do all dvr’s count in ratings or only tivo’s or what?

I mean like… Do Direct TV DVR’s count?
cable company’s, Dish Network, etc.??? let me know thnx

By: Noah

Noah — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:19:54 +0000

I love TSCC – and I remember reading a comment by Bill, I think, in which he said TSCC was one of his and Robert’s favorite shows a while back – but the numbers are the numbers and with or without the DVR viewers, they suck… bad.

It’s really not something to worry about at this point anyway. Just enjoy the show and let it play out.

By: Anon

Anon — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:34:16 +0000

TSCC wasn’t cancelled because how would it look to have a Terminator property fail right before a huge budgeted Terminator movie is getting released?

By: Weekend Watchers » Blog Archive » Can DVR numbers save “Sarah Connor” and “Dollhouse”?

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:48:12 +0000

[...] picked up 32 percent of its audience from DVR viewing, and pushed it’s total number of viewers near 5 million in the seven day period. Moreover, the show had the highest increase in the uber important 18-49 demo, zooming from 1.4 to [...]

By: Majarvis

Majarvis — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:46:58 +0000

@ Nick C:

You claim to have spoken “with an exec at FOX.” Prove it. Other than being lucky with some of your predictions in the past, I highly doubt you have any connection whatsoever to the television industry. In any prediction, you have a 50% chance of being right. You’re bound to get a few. You seem to be just lucky in your predictions, leading people to believe you are in fact close to industry insiders. I doubt that very much. Stop making TSCC feel worse than they already do. We know the show isn’t doing well, but we don’t need some Internet blogger claiming to have insider information when he doesn’t. That accomplishes nothing.

By: Birdman117

Birdman117 — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:51:45 +0000

@ Nick C.

So FOX is trying to get more money from WB to show the last 6 episodes of TSCC? And risk getting sued by WB? FOX already signed a contract to air the last 9 episodes. WB could file a lawsuit against them for trying to get more money to show last few episodes. FOX isn’t stupid. If you’re such an expert you would know that.

Bite my shiny metal ass Nick C.

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:34:28 +0000

I don’t sleep.

By: Schmokey

Schmokey — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:19:16 +0000

Bill and Bob,

Considering I don’t pay a dime (nor a nickel, nor a penny) to visit this site, make all the mistakes you want. You always seem to correct them, and all the work you guys put into this site is appreciated. To hold you guys to a standard of perfection that even well paid, well funded publications that actually charge money cannot meet seems silly.

Just a little counterbalance to some of the whining. The internet is creating a generation of people who think they are entitled to free everything, tailored exclusively to their personal likes and dislikes. Sad but true.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:44:09 +0000

Nick C, I am waiting for the 'Til Death Independence Day Marathon!

By: Nick C

Nick C — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:36:28 +0000

I can’t help but notice that Til Death still isn’t on the air, with no future plans of it airing any time soon. FOX may have paid, but will they air them? They were given a piece of syndication, and that may be all FOX is in it for. I suppose I should ask about.

By: Julia

Julia — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:29:08 +0000

Vader, I don’t think Bill or Robert have ever said the renew/cancel index is infallible. Til Death had special circumstances as was reported widely when it was renewed. Numbers alone can’t account for that. But logically, there’s no reason Warners would offer a similar deal for TSCC as FOX got for Til Death. The movie will be out of theaters by the time a third season aired, and what purpose could they have for keeping it around?

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:28:29 +0000

Vader, yes, we were wrong about a 30 minute sitcom that SPT gave Fox basically for free to ensure it aired. We were also wrong about According to Jim. It’s a different world for crappy ratings with sitcoms. But we’ve never seen this extend to one hour scripted dramas. That’s not based on predictions, but actual results. In the case of TSCC there’s no reason to believe that past results don’t indicate the future. Unlike the case of ‘Til Death, where I understand why SPT is basically willing to give it to FOX for free (syndication potential), I can’t see why Warner Bros would be motivated to give TSCC away just to get it on the air.

By: Vader

Vader — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:23:29 +0000

Reminds me of how they called Til’ Death as dead earlier this season. I’m not saying it’s going to happen, but you guys should admit that you’ve been wrong about this before.

For Terminator fans, here’s coverage of last weekend’s WonderCon panel! Enjoy!

http://tv.ign.com/articles/957/957908p1.html

By: Julia

Julia — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:41:12 +0000

Jsman, check out this post for that answer.

By: Jsman

Jsman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:30:16 +0000

Bill and Robert,

I’m always checking out your blog and you guys do an awesome job at it. just wanted to say sorry about all the TSCC fans attacking you right now. They clearly have no idea what they are talking about as you both are fans of the show (as am I, even though this last episode was just gentle background noise for my sat afternoon nap.)
I just wanted to get both of your opinions on Dollhouse and if it were able to maintain these numbers would it be back next year? I’m really enjoying it and thinking it’s getting better and better!

By: Holly

Holly — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:05:41 +0000

I posted this in the wrong thread, so I’m moving it to the right place now…

Stateater, You may have something there with the airing on Friday thing. I wonder how TSCC would do on a night other than Friday….My guess is it would still be the lowest rated scripted show on the network and struggle to maintain a 2.0 in the demo.

Hey look, I’m right!
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/11/18/monday-chuck-beats-sarah-connor-heroes-down-a-little-more/8318

By: Tony

Tony — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:50:30 +0000

@ Nick C

Canceled? Canceled right now or do we still get the remaining 6? I know season 3 is not happening but I want to see the remaining episodes. I heard they’re gonna rock!

Oh, what’s up with the make you feel better comment? That is pretty rude.

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:15:21 +0000

But here’s the thing. Judging by the current ratings; yes, it’s cancelled. But you can never be quite sure what the future holds.

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:13:55 +0000

Can I be the first to say that that seriously sucks?

By: Nick C

Nick C — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:08:34 +0000

Stateater, I spoke with an exec at FOX. He says the show is canceled. That make you feel better? Right now they’re trying to wiggle some more money from Warner just to keep it on to finish its run.

Also your reasoning is seriously flawed. The X-FILES became a top 20 show on Friday Nights, which is the whole reason it was moved to Sunday Nights. DVR viewership in fact matters none at all to anyone but PR for Networks. C3 matters, and TSCC’s first Friday C3s number were abysmal. It dropped .2 from its Live + SD.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:53:31 +0000

there are two tables in the post above, the Terminator info is (and always was) in the second one, but Rachel is right, it had 4.758 million viewers including the 1.5 million DVR viewers.

you can’t add 1.5 million to the Live+SD results because they already include some of the DVR viewing and it’s double counting.

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:46:31 +0000

Actually, TSCC got 3.2 million viewers live, and about .5 million DVRd also that day bringing it to 3.7. Then an extra million watched throughout the week. I was wrong in my comment I made way up there. So the total would be about 4.7 million.

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:50:09 +0000

Holly,

Yet if you think outside of the box…

Say you have 3.8 million live viewers and then an additional 1.5 million DVR viewers. What is that when you add it together? Oh you say 5.3 million viewers? Interesting. Now if only we could get those other 1.5+ million people to become live viewers…how would we do that…oh you say move the show to a time slot that targets its core demographic best? You don’t say!

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:45:38 +0000

Well if companies would just make GOOD commercials…

‘Nannerpuss is awesome though.

By: Holly

Holly — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:42:31 +0000

because 99.9% of people fast forward through commercials… Which is precisely why DVR numbers don’t count for much in renewal decisions.

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:38:57 +0000

The ratings really haven’t changed much at all if you factor DVR numbers. Plus those DVR numbers are somewhat smaller than the real number because 99.9% of people fast forward through commercials…

All the ratings have done is shown that Friday night is not a good slot for a show that targets a young adult audience. Fringe would have similar numbers as T:SCC if it was on Friday nights.

By: Jordan

Jordan — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:32:37 +0000

I’m talking in the current time, not months ago.

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:30:15 +0000

Jordan,

If that’s the case, T:SCC wouldn’t have been given the back 9 episodes and FOX would have dumped it then.

By: Jordan

Jordan — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:27:12 +0000

I think FOX would probably rather spend some time on their own properties, not just shuffling around a fledgling show.

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:25:07 +0000

So why again is there only one option with T:SCC, and that being cancellation?

Why wouldn’t moving it to another day/time for a 3rd season, be an alternative possibility?

Look at the X-Files. If it would have stayed on the Friday night time slot it would have surely died.

By: Rachel P

Rachel P — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:23:44 +0000

Wow, this is heated. I admire those of you who are holding onto hope, whether right or wrong, cause you have the same kind of heart I do.

Robert: That’s funny, I just watched (some of) a Star Trek episode where the Enterprise gets to a galaxy where their thoughts become reality. I skimmed the ep quickly cause it was really bad. About second season or so.

Hmm… a sci-fi show… 2nd season… some bleh episodes… bleh ratings… prospered greatly in the following seasons.

Never know.

By: Jordan

Jordan — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:21:49 +0000

The people holding out hope for TSCC are getting harder to find. Even the most hardcore fan should realize that it won’t come back. It’s not like there won’t be a conclusion to the show, even if it’s only on DVD. Take what you can get, but don’t hold your breath about next season.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:13:56 +0000

Stateater, I predicted it would be cancelled in May long ago. You just weren't paying attention. You can still join the bandwagon though, we've got plenty of room! Yeehaw!

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:12:48 +0000

Let this be a memorable moment, for there are 6 additional episodes remaining to be viewed and accounted for.

Yet it only took 3 episodes for you and the rest of your bandwagon to call the show over.

We shall see.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:11:25 +0000

What I find interesting now, is that TSCC fans who will not be deterred by results cannot see that those Live+7 demo ratings above compared to other Fox shows for the week are *terrible*. TSCC did worse than Cops 2 on Saturday night for god sakes, and barely beat the other Fox Saturday crime reality dreck.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:03:13 +0000

Stateater — that’s what they said about Jericho, Lipstick Jungle, Eli Stone. But here’s the thing, when the Nielsen numbers ARE as low as TSCC’s, those other things really don’t matter, even though you wish they did.

Here’s a newsflash for you: the show is getting cancelled. even with DVR #’s, the ratings aren’t any good AND, the DVR numbers we post don’t matter — only the C3 numbers do (commercial viewing, with 3 days of DVR viewing as opposed to program viewing) but unfortunately we do not see them.

As far as no network forcing people, especially young adults to watch on Friday nights, that’s why we said it was really sucky the show got moved to Friday nights to begin with! The Lipstick Jungle crowd said the exact same thing, let me know when the next new episode of that comes on! Also you need to realize that 1.9 with DVR viewing which still isn’t good will likely drop to a 1.8 next week and a 1.7 the following week based on the last two weeks that are not included in these numbers.

By: Holly

Holly — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:01:47 +0000

Stateater,

This is Bill and Robert’s blog. If you don’t want to read their opinions, don’t come here.

Also, for all the bragging rights Live+7 viewing gives a show, if those viewers aren’t watching commercials, they’re not really helping the advertising rates, so they don’t matter nearly much in renewal decisions as the Live and C3 numbers.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:56:38 +0000

Julia counts, but since she’s not writing any of the posts that are aggravating the “hopes springs eternal” crowd, I didn’t want to lay any of it on her. I encourage her to write a post giving her personal opinion on TSCC’s prospects, but I suspect she has more important things to do.

By: Stateater

Stateater — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:55:57 +0000

Bill and Robert,

Since neither of you are Fox execs, nor can either you comprehend that T:SCC pending 3rd season is based off of more than live Nielsen numbers that you like to abuse, why don’t you keep your amateur opinions to yourselves? Neither of you are in a position to make absolute claims and the slander you spew against T:SCC is blatantly obvious. Your anti-TSCC agenda is as noticeable as MSNBC’s Pro-Obama agenda.

Here’s a newsflash for 2009: DVR ratings mater, and the Nielsen data shows that there is around 5+ million (live + DVR) viewers out there. No show is going to force people, especially young adults, to stay inside on a Friday night.

By: Holly

Holly — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:52:37 +0000

Does Julia not count then? Never underestimate the value of your copy editor.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:49:07 +0000

Veran, TSCC is the LOWEST rated show on Fox, both in the demo and total viewers, according to live ratings. The fact that it’s doing better than repeats and Saturday shows if you factor in the DVR counts for nothing. It’s not 50/50. It’s more like a 95% chance of being cancelled and a 5% chance of being renewed.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:47:11 +0000

Veran, yes, we are evil Terminators from the future, since between Bill and I we represent 100% of the site, I can tell you with 100% certainty we are not down on TSCC, just its prospects for renewal. It’s nowhere near 50/50 — unless you mean 50/50 that FOX will cancel it this season before it even finishes its run. Another show, NBC’s LIFE (which I also like very much but will definitely be cancelled) had more DVR viewers than TSCC and it will still be cancelled.

TheColours, 90210 does consistently well in terms of % of overall viewing that comes via DVR. I’m not sure that is viewed as a positive though.

By: Thecolours

Thecolours — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:29:33 +0000

T:SCC was given it’s back 9 at the last possible minute, literally. The writers had already cleaned off their desks, and the writers room was shut down. Josh had to personally call back the writers, when he got the call from Fox 10pm on a Friday night.

But, I digress… Robert or Bill, 90210 does consistenly well in the live+7 numbers. How much did CW take this into account when ordering a second season? I’m wondering if WB would try to move T:SCC to CW, based on DVR numbers being it’s saving grace, like it is for 90210.

By: Veran

Veran — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:24:32 +0000

I don’t make the mistake of pointing fingers at any particular individual, including yourself. I was speaking of the website as a whole. All TSCC ever gets is negatives and such and such from this site and others like it, yet the show pulls through somehow. I’m not deluded. I know that we may not get a third season still, but I take comfort in the fact that our chances look a hell of a lot better than they were. This ratings boost earns us time to grow back our audience, which I’m confident we will. If FOX were to decide our fate now, which I don’t think they’ll do, we would certainly get cancelled (unless WB offers incentives).

As it stands, I believe FOX will let the season play itself out, then decide if we’re worth sticking with. And like I said; if our ratings start to climb up to a much healthier margin, then maybe we can survive to another season (T4 being a big help there). I don’t care if you and the others on here have more experience in this than I have. All I care about is exploring every possible avenue for renewal, which is what a fan does when he loves a show like this one.

We have a high chance of being cancelled, that’s true.
But we also have an opportunity to earn a chance at surviving.

It’s 50/50 now, so it could go either way.
Ratings aren’t the only factors that matter to this show.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:59:19 +0000

Veran, I am not trying to convince you, you are unconvinceable, but I just want to set the record straight. I predicted that TSCC would come back for a second season. The words I used were "Guaranteed Return". I never predicted that TSCC would be canceled by January. Please link to the post where I made that prediction. Last fall my prediction was always that it would be canceled by May. The most anyone can point to, and desperate fans have already done so, is that when TSCC was given its "back 9" order this season I commented that I was surprised it had gotten it so early in the process. The record is now set straight. Please continue in your delusions of TSCC returning next season.

By: Veran

Veran — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:40:28 +0000

You guys kept predicting that TSCC would never come back for a second season. Yet we did. You said we would never get our back nine. Yet here we are. You say, without any doubt, that we won’t get a third season. I say that our chances are far higher than you give them credit for. If our ratings can increase this much from last week’s (arguably boring) episode, then imagine what our increase will be when the brilliant episodes air?

Plus there’s Terminator Salvation.

Anyone whose seen the new trailer will know how brilliant this movie will be, so why would FOX pass up the chance to get a piece of that whirlwind when this show can reach a redeemable stature? Dollhouse and all those other shows may not survive, but TSCC has the benefit of a massive franchise to back them up.

Unlike Dollhouse, TSCC has far greater long-term potential, and no matter what you might say here; they would be fools to pass it up.

By: Robert Seidman

Robert Seidman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:19:34 +0000

One of my favorite lines ever from Star Trek: The Next Generation (they may have borrowed it from somewhere else) was Picard saying, “Wishing for a thing does not make it so.”

Wishing for TSCC to survive will not make it so. But wishing that we could convince the wishers won’t make that so either.

By: Bill Gorman

Bill Gorman — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:13:29 +0000

Veran, if I have learned anything from the experience on this site, it is that hope does indeed spring eternal. There is no chance TSCC survives, but nothing I can say, and no numbers you will read will convince you of that so I’ll not try.