James Hibberd interviewed Battlestar Galactica's Ron Moore about BSG's finale. Hibberd asked Moore about serial dramas vs procedural shows:
THR: There's a push among broadcast networks toward close-ended, non-serialized shows -- like crime procedurals -- the idea being that serialized dramas are increasingly high-risk.
Moore: I think they've always been high-risk and networks have always had an aversion to it. Network executives generally live in fear, and their fear is always that (the viewer is) going to be confused. It's unfortunate because some of the greatest shows have been serialized and featured continuing
characters. Audiences of serialized shows tend to become avid and dedicated viewers interested in exploring the show's universe online and consumers of additional merchandising. I think network executives are somewhat myopic because they go for the easiest answer. "Let's make it tidy and all wrapped-up so the audience doesn't have to remember what happened last week." The audience is smart. They like catching up on things. They have a wide menu of ways at this point to catch up on shows. It just doesn't seem like it's the big scary monster a lot of networks would have you believe. - read the rest on The Live Feed
I only watch serialized shows, except for Law and Order. I find non-serialized shows are usually spoon fed nonsense.
I don’t agree with him. There are plenty of examples of shows that have a strong serialized element that networks love to run (or in some cases loved to run until the ratings went down the toilet):
The Office
Lost
Grey’s Anatomy
Ugly Betty
Gossip Girl
One Tree Hill
Survivor
American Idol
24
House
Prison Break
Heroes
Even many of the so-called procedurals have story lines that span across multiple episodes. The miniature killer on CSI for example.
Apparently, James hasn’t turned on a television since the days of Bonanza and the Dick Van Dyke Show.
I agree with him that the attachments fans seem to form to serialized shows is amazing and can be capitalized on in many ways that should be explored more outside of genre shows.
What I don’t like, and to RDM’s credit I don’t think he did this here at all, but you can already see it in Jack’s comment, is how it’s made out to be like serialized shows are without exception so smart and procedurals are for the dumb old people, because
“some of the greatest shows have been serialized”
is very true, but also some of the worst shows have been serialized.
The problem serialized shows have is not procedurals and reality TV, it’s bad serialized shows. Just look at all the serialized shows that got produced after Lost hit. Or before that after the success of 24. The enemy of good serialized shows are not dumb viewers, it’s dumb serialized shows.
I do love BSG and 24, but I also love Criminal Minds and NCIS. Apparently I am much smarter Mondays and Fridays than midweek.
I think the view that non-serialised television is ‘lazy’ or requires no effort or memory from the audience is one that has never been entirely accurate and is becoming increasingly out of touch with the modern television landscape.
House for example is very much a closed ended ‘case of the week’ show and yet the writers and producers have over time expanded that model to allow for character arcs and storylines that develop over multiple episodes and reward the loyal viewer without alienating the casual viewer. Someone (and I apologise but I can’t remember who) pointed out during the Wednesday that the Lie To Me producers are slowly setting up the same basic formula for that show as well, adding a serialised development to their characters lives that doesn’t eliminate a causal audience friendly ‘case of the week’ format.
Even new procedurals like Life and The Mentalist have mixed the casual audience friendly case of the week concept with a more overlapping serialised concept. Admittedly Life hasn’t seen much audience success with that but The Mentalist has.
It’s also worth pointing out that whilst BSG is critically praised its not as if it has a mass audience so perhaps listening to one of its producers when it comes to making shows that a mass audience will watch isn’t the best way forward.
Can anyone for example find a completely serialised drama that has sustained itself in the same way that CSI has for example? Or one that’s grown like NCIS has? Or Bones? Or House? Or any other number of the closed ended shows. The networks are there to serve the masses, when serialised shows do as well as the closed ended shows they’ll make more of them. That’s why there was an explosion of them after 24 and then Lost. The problem is the hit to miss ratio with serialised shows isn’t particularly spectacular especially not when you look over the long term.
Its worth pointing out that Heroes also perfectly sums up why serialised shows are a huge risk – if you get it wrong, you get it wrong for the entire season and you don’t get that audience back. If CSI produces a couple of duff episodes people don’t bail from the show never to return – if a serialised show produces duff episodes or a bad batch of storylines people ditch and don’t come back because those storylines and episodes are felt for the entire season.
I think the networks will keep taking risks on serialized shows because they have a huge profit potential if done right, much more than procedurals. The first season of Heroes sold 1.5 million units, totalling $60 million in sales. The various CSI incarnations are lucky to sell 100,000 units. The only procedurals that do pretty well in DVD sales are ones with some ongoing elements like House and Grey’s Anatomy but only in the first couple seasons, then sales taper off more dramatically than well-done serialized shows like LOST. I’m guessing the cookie-cutter formula starts to get tired after a while.
To clarify, instead of “profit potential” I should have written DVD sales potential.
I prefer serialized dramas
Procedurals are boring and tiring! Sometimes I really can’t stand watching House.
David, reality shows don’t really count. And you forgot Chuck.
“There are plenty of examples of shows that have a strong serialized element that networks love to run… American idol”.
What the….???!?!
Well the reality games are kind of seralized.
You have to watch week after week cause its not a self contanted contest. Otherwise I agree…the reality games don’t really count.
The majors will go towards self contanted shows until their comes a show that the powers that power think will work.
However I do think seralized drama will do better on cable TV…it really depends on the show.
Not every crime drama that is cranked out will be a hit. Their have been many crime dramas that have been hits and crime dramas that flopped and long forgotten.
The sitcom might be stronger this coming season but you need to find the shows that will attract and audience. Just don’t go with a 4-Cam laugh track sitcom for its own sake…find out what in the subtance department.
“The first season of Heroes sold 1.5 million units, totalling $60 million in sales. The various CSI incarnations are lucky to sell 100,000 units.”
In regards to that, I think, that the revenue streams are simply different here. Sure a huge hit serial can establish its own brand and turn amazing profits via DVD sales, video games and kitschy merchandise, but when comparing a huge hit serial not to any old Without a Trace, but to a comparably huge hit procedural then between repating infinitely better, syndication, being the #1 tv show internationally and spinning off to other immensly succesful shows, CBS made its $60 million off of CSI somewhere. While its nice that Heroes had this instant fanbase from the start, CSI has made CBS Paramount money for almost a decade and will continue to do so, while the JAG/NCIS/new spin off franchise has been on twice as long even and seems anything but done.
Besides I still don’t buy this doom and gloom ‘serialized shows are done on network tv’ anyway. Sure, this year NCIS grew huge in its sixth season, while Lost, 24 and Heroes continued their decline (to different extents, sure), The Mentalist was the most watched new show and Lie to Me looks like an inexpensive safe bet, so maybe there’ll be a handful of new procedurals next season.
But that is eerily reminiscent of that boring season where we got Invasion, Kidnapped, Day Break, The Nine, Jericho and many many more not very succesful procedurals, because everyone was trying to copy Lost. Unless every procedural hits the jackpot next year (and how highly unlikely is that?) those seasons will come around again. It’s just not en vogue right now.
Compared to, say, House, the current medical drama hit of the day, ER would have to be considered HEAVILY serialized back in the day. It’s basically a soap opera, although a very intelligent one. Somehow it was once viewed by 30-40 million people a week, and they all seemed to be able to keep up with all the various relationships and intrigues on the show.
No, it was never Lost in terms of serialization, but, again, it was Lost compared to House.
How about Dynasty and Dallas? Seemed like quite a few people watched those serialized soapers also. Along with Falcon Crest, Knots Landing, and a number of other “night time soaps.” Now, you can criticize those shows quality and/or style, but you cannot argue that they were not serial dramas. There was no close ended anything on them.
You know what draws in the ratings? Good shows. That’s it, plain and simple. Good shows, complicated or not, get viewers. Not ALL good shows, obviously, and sometimes sucky ones do quite well, but, by and large, what really makes a hit is that it is good. And THAT is the one thing networks execs never ever seem to get.
Wasn’t this the same guy who gave NBC the ratings challenged Bionic Woman?
Heroes
Lost
Smallville
Prison Break
Love em. Only thing I watch.
Moore: “Moore: One of the goals going into it (was) we wanted to make a sci-fi show that was relevant and spoke to our times and dealt with real issues that approached the drama in a naturalistic way and made it “real.” If we’re able to define a legacy of asking other shows to do the same in the genre and keep sci fi going in a way that tackles meaningful ideas and challenge audience expectations, I think that would be a great thing.”
That’s what I’d like to see. Pure fantasy shows or “space operas” don’t interest me – which is why I didn’t bother with BSG when it reincarnated – the original sucked too bad. I may look into it at some point via season DVDs or downloads. I wasn’t that interested in “Firefly” until I saw “Serenity”. Then I went back and watched all the episodes on Hulu and intend to download them as well.
Terminator needed to deal with real issues about the core concept of the franchise – the relationships between humans and AIs among others, which is going to become a real issue in the next few decades. And that core concept also applies to how humans relate to each other, so a story arc that includes that element would be very relevant. Instead, it went off to become a family drama and a psychological study of stress with some religious flavorings thrown in.
Fringe and Dollhouse deal with issues of the pace of technological change, the influence of corporations, the nature of personality and consciousness, etc., all of which make those shows relevant. TSCC had some of those elements, but never emphasized them enough to make them stand out.
So far, the Moore’s shows speak to a minority of people who seem to slobber over just about everything he and his partners in crime do(especially the BSG stuff). The current BSG’s ratings are only so-so, it’ll be interesting to see if they still go ahead with the prequel the way the ratings are.
At its core TSCC is based on a action movie about people on the run from robots who are from the future.The other core part being these people are trying prevent that future. That’s the core a lot of people were buying into before the show decided to slow things down and do character studies.