Like I also said I think the general tone around Chuck is much more positive without Leno in the equation but I still think the shows numbers put it in danger and not Leno.

And for the record Chuck is in green on the index.

It’s numbers. Numbers don’t lie. 1.04 is “safe,” under normal circumstances. Right now it isn’t only because of LENO. The fact that you seem to refuse to accept that is extremely questionable to nearly everyone who reads these comments. It’s why they think you’re anti-CHUCK because you certainly appear to be. Reason dictates the show would be safe without LENO, thus the numbers aren’t “bad,” or “awful,” which are both words you’ve used.

If you were being reasonable we’d see you making comments like “PRIVATE PRACTICE is doing bad and if ABC were smart they’d cancel it,” or “CSI:NY is doing bad and if CBS were smart they’d cancel it,” or “AMERICAN DAD and BONES are doing bad and if FOX was smart they’d cancel them.” Which to my knowledge you’ve never once stated nor likely even believe. All those shows are incredibly close or in the exact same spot on their network indexes. You don’t seriously believe there was ever any doubt about those shows? In fact PRIVATE PRACTICE, AMERICAN DAD, and BONES have all already seen announcements of their renewal or a pickup of episodes for next season.

What show do you think is safe that falls into the above .92 but below 1.04? The only one that I can see is Law & Order (although that isn’t above .92) but I did include that in the shows along with Chuck and Medium that would be on the bubble regardless of Leno and the only reason Law & Order is viewed as ‘safe’ is because next year is season 20, which isn’t something any other show on any schedule has going for it. That’s about as unique a situation as you’re going to get for renew/cancel debates.

As it stands though I don’t think anything under a 2.5 should be cancelled, I think anything under a 2.5 needs to be looked at as in danger because unless its Law & Order and heading into season 20 or a cheap 30 minute sitcom it probably is in danger. I’m not oblivous to falling ratings across the board Nick I just don’t think we’re quite in the position where something below a 2.5 is automatically greenlit for another season.

As I think I said (and if I didn’t I meant to) without Leno the general tone regarding Chuck’s future would be much more positive but I still think people would be questioning whether or not it gets a third season because its numbers put it on the bubble not Leno.

So you most be a Ad Agency assistant.

The FACT is it wouldn’t be a bubble show at all. You refuse to admit it because you live in the past where anything under a 2.5 should be canceled. That is the same world I used to live in, but reality is that those numbers are continuing to drop. We can’t think “anything less than 2.5 is bad,” when we’re also no longer seeing regular shows well above the 5.0 mark. We’re not seeing the successes of the past either. It’s a different world and you obviously refuse to accept it.

Well then, why hasn’t NBC already canceled Chuck then? The ratings for Chuck have stayed pretty consistent the second half of this season. They weren’t getting any better or worse. What were they waiting for?

If they do cancel Chuck, good luck to whatever show they put there.

Yes.

Again, Chuck isn’t in trouble because of Leno its in trouble because of its performance this season.

You can try and argue that without Leno Chuck sails through to a third season and that the likes of Lipstick Jungle or Life become bubble shows for NBC but that’s borderline ridiculous. With or without Leno Lipstick Jungle and shows like it are gone just like with or without Leno Chuck, Medium and Law & Order are on the borderline of renewal.

I don’t think fans of Chuck would be anywhere near as worried as they are now for Chuck without Leno because NBC don’t have to work anywhere near as hard to find a way to make it work. Ultimately the only difference Leno is truly making to Chuck’s future is that now if NBC want to bring it back they have to work harder to find a way to make it work. With or without Leno Chuck’s right on the network average and people are questioning whether NBC should bring it back or not.

Again, Leno is an excuse for Chuck and nothing else.

Would CHUCK be on the bubble if Leno wasn’t taking 5 slots?

The answer is no. So the numbers aren’t bad. If the numbers were bad, poor, or even sub par the show wouldn’t even be a bubble show this season. No bad, poor, or sub par show is lucky enough to be on the bubble for NBC this season. With the new loss of time slots they’re already canceled. Just ask Brooke Shields.

“Besides CHUCKS productions offices have been closed since March 24.”

Yes, but what does that have to do with someone involved in a limited manner to DIRTY SEXY MONEY asking me to call their production offices to prove they’re legit and call me a liar? I don’t see how that relates. I ended up very much right then, and I’m sure I’m more in the loop than 98% of all people tied to these shows.

” Maybe you could call Josh at home he really is a very approachable guy.”

Email is easier.

“Nick, I really get the feeling that your a well education guy,”

I get the idea you’re not. That would be “well educated guy,” and not “well education guy.”

“Someday if you stay focused you will get out of that PA loop your stuck in.”

That would also be “you’re,” and not “your.” I’m also sure you’re just like the DIRTY SEXY MONEY idiot that was on here in November. You’re in a low end job on set, but highly uneducated. Like them you have no real ability to express the English language in any kind of educated manner. Plus, it’s a common reply from little people to say someone is “just a PA,” or to belittle PAs. PAs work their ass off, and I wouldn’t have received some damn nice coffee without them when I visited sets.

I’ll also point out that the danger of writing a game changing episode is that by its very nature it completely changes the show so you risk alienating the network who brought show x by turning it into show y. On that note I’m struggling off the top of my head to name a show that’s done a bi game changing concept and lived much longer. I’d imagine there’s some out there I just can’t think of any right now, I’m sure a Chuck fan will bombard me with them at some point.

Bill to a degree I agree with what you’re saying but like I said I think NBC have made their decision and I think the only way that decision changes now is if the numbers for the finale are dramatically different from what people expect and NBC opts to take another look at the show because of them. I suspect we’re at the point where Warner’s have gone as low as they’ll go and that NBC knows how their pilots are shaping up unless something happens on Monday for everyone to re-evaluate their positions. For the record I’m not saying that NBC have decided to axe the show I’m just saying I think they’ve made their decision one way or the other at this point.

Its also worth remembering that a radical rethink of the show in the finale doesn’t mean much for the future prospects – look at Terminator. From all accounts its finale changed the dynamic and potential future of the direction of the show but still only the hardcore crazies think its coming back next year. Meanwhile a few years ago Rob Thomas pitched a complete rethink of Veronica Mars for a fourth season and it went nowhere. Pitching ideas is a sign that NBC were at least entertaining the idea of bringing Chuck back, its not a sign that they’re still thinking about it. They may very well have hated the season three pitch and decided to axe it because of that.

Has anyone considered the fact that JS said in an interview that he and CF have already pitched Season 3 stories to NBC? If it was a guaranteed goner, then why would they even ask them to pitch story lines? The network likes the show, yet has dropped the ball on promoting it. I think they find themselves in a strange position having picked up Leno just to prevent someone else from doing it. I agree with others who think his show will flop by December and I think it would be smart for Chuck to get the same shot in 13 episodes. Kill it in December if it continues to plateau. I think the blow back from canceling it at this point would affect other shows.

Reality is, nobody really knows, and especially people who get information from a third party (NickC I think you said a “contact of a friend”). I disagree that the numbers are borderline bad, L&O has worse numbers and many have predicted it will get a 20th season just because it’s at 19. If numbers really matter it should be gone which would leave room cor Chuck, Medium, etc.

The reason people are blaming Leno is because of the money that NBC is throwing at him to stay for his Tonight Show “spinoff” on prime time. Chuck is a “bubble” show that puts up decent numbers in a highly competitive timeslot. If the show was on another network, it would’ve already been canceled. Lucky for Chuck fans like me,it’s on a struggling network called NBC. If you remove the money NBC has set aside for Leno, it could go to Chuck for a short order of episodes. I’d say by Monday night or Tuesday morning the latest, Chuck fans will know the fate of the show.

I’m not a show basher, people have different tastes. I don’t know why some people are bothered by a show’s passionate fanbase.

So you don’t like the “will-they-or-won’t-they” but you would like them being together even less? So what would you like to have happen? Chuck/Sarah saying they like each other but nothing could ever happen between them and then it never being mentioned again? That would be kind of ridiculous. You seem very hard to please.

Julia said:
“Richard, Sarah is the problem for me. The whole relationship was just far too cliche and completely predictable.”

That’s a pretty ridiculous reason since most of the relationships on tv are very cliche and predictable. If that is the case I’d be very surprised if you watched even a few tv shows.

Julia said:
“Richard, I stopped watching because the show became too much about will-they-or-won’t-they between Chuck and Sarah.”

You do realize that one of the top rules of television is that lead characters can never get together and stay together for long because that isn’t what most people want to see. If they are together every week
and are all lovey dovey it would be very boring.

Although I agree with some of your arguments regarding Chuck’s numbers, you’re really sounding like a broken record. We get it! Chuck’s numbers are sub-par and maybe even bad.

It seems like your on a mission to invalidate any positive spin on Chuck’s numbers. None of the Chuck fans will listen to you. They heard you the first time and they heard you the hundreds of time after that. Seriously, when someone says something remotely positive about Chuck’s ratings, you’re there to squash it. Just stop peeing on their parade.

They said I was full of it too and wanted to call the production offices. HUH.I don’t remember that answer as being one of your 4 options. Besides CHUCKS productions offices have been closed since March 24. Maybe you could call Josh at home he really is a very approachable guy.
Nick, I really get the feeling that your a well education guy, probable went to film school and everything .
Someday if you stay focused you will get out of that PA loop your stuck in.

You know when I said DIRTY SEXY MONEY was over and it was a matter of time before it was official (As in producers told) one of their janitors or PAs or something got on here and bet me $10,000. I still haven’t been paid (and neither has Robert). They said I was full of it too and wanted me to call the production offices.

I’m pretty sure Josh will learn this week what is happening and won’t have to wait until Monday.

In CHUCKS 2nd season that concludes next Monday, it was common knowledge that it had a 22 episode pick up. But in factor NBC never signed the licensing agreement for the back 9 for many months after filming started.
Why not call your source up and proved us with the correct answer? I will help you out by giving 4 answer to choose from.
A. July
B. August
C. September
D. October

One other comment, I would like to help you out with. If CHUCK is canceled, Josh Schwartz will know on April 27 9:05 Pm Pacific Standard Time and anybody that works for the company will know Tuesday morning April 28, not on May 5th

On the whole NBC is doing bad. It has an average of 2.3 in 18-49 demo per show on the network. CHUCK pulling a 2.4 is better. See how easy that is?

I’m pretty sure NBC changed their tune for leverage to get a lower price from Warner for CHUCK. There are too many reasons CHUCK should be renewed for them to really be considering canceling it. I may have been told 90/10 but I’m personally thinking it’s 50/50 with Warner having the ability to bring it back in their hands.

If you want to take someone pointing out Chuck’s bad numbers as some kind of personal insult or attack then go for it and if you want to take someone believing NBC would cancel Chuck because of said numbers as another personal insult or attack then more power to you. It makes no sense to me but whatever makes you happy.

But make no mistake about it your taking offence to my view on Chuck’s numbers.

They’re cancelling it because it does badly anything else is just an excuse.

I’ll kick back in with my seemingly constant loop on this – if NBC wants Chuck back next year they’ll find a way to make it work regardless of five hours of Leno but Chuck fans don’t like to accept that possibility because it means you can’t make Jay Leno the scapegoat for your favourite shows failings and like it or not pulling a mid 2 at best is a failing. And that mid 2 at best is the real reason Chuck’s facing the axe, if its ratings weren’t in the toilet then it would be back for a third season.

Like I’ve said before Leno wasn’t moved to 10 so NBC could cancel poor performers but now he’s there they’re going to use him to do it. He’s their magic deflector shield when it comes to the subject of why Chuck or anything else that was on the bubble was cancelled. If over the next couple of months we don’t here some kind of ‘we/they wanted to bring [insert show here] back but Leno made it impossible’ explanation for NBC bubble shows being cancelled I will be absolutely astonished. And regardless of whether anyone officially says it that’s exactly what is going to be reported because that’s what is already being reported.

But lets continue to over look the fact that Chuck’s poor performances got it cancelled and just pass the buck to Jay ‘scapegoat’ Leno because hey if Chuck were pulling 3.2′s instead of 2.2′s I’m sure NBC would axe it anyway, I mean they’re doing it because there’s no space on the schedule not because of its poor performance.

Leno is the perfect excuse for NBC, Chuck fans and the Chuck production team for dropping the axe because lets face it, it looks better for NBC to be able to say – no that wasn’t cancelled because of its ratings we were actually quite happy with those, it was cancelled because with Leno moving to 10 we simply couldn’t fit it on the schedule.

Start trying to make it fit yourself, and you’ll understand. They all seem to love the show, so I’m sure that is where the 10% is coming from. They just don’t have the room.

Nick,
I don’t agree with your reasoning. While Chuck may have gone from leaning toward renewal to leaning towards cancellation, I imagine it has to do with WB and NBC not being able to work out a deal and not because they can’t find room for it.

I don’t know where you heard about what they are planning to pick up but from what I understand only three pilots have officially been given the green light, Day One and Legally Mad and the new Debra Messing show. Now I am not saying that you are wrong, but there hasn’t been official word that they are going to pick the other two up. Also, while yes you are correct that from the looks of things Chuck is a hard fit just about anywhere at first glance, but I think that you are maybe making assumptions here. First, you are assuming that Leno as well as the four pilots you listed are going to succeed and be given full season pick-ups. Lets assume that at least one of these shows fails (I am not saying that I hope it fails or want it to fail, but realistically speaking at least one of these is not going make it). The logical conclusion is to replace it with L&O. But what do you replace it with if more than one fails? What happens if Leno isn’t successful? What do you put on after Football? I mean NBC’s logic used to be that they would show reruns of the L&O franchise, but if NBC ever wants to succeed they can’t keep doing that. I would hate to see Chuck go but like I said if it is leaning towards cancellation, it likely more has to do with money than with not fitting. NBC would be absolutely stupid to put all their eggs in one basket and assume that all the shows are going to succeed.

Richard Steven Hack says:” Talk about incredibly, nauseatingly bad writing! It was nothing less than a deliberate insult to all the fans who were big on John and Cameron getting together before the show ended.” I stopped watching TSCC at the beginning of this season (last episode I saw was Cameron’s origin). John Conner “hooks up” with Cameron the terminator? Talk about a jump the shark moment. When TSCC came out, I thought it could probably last for two seasons and it did. John Conner can only do so much running before it gets boring. At least with the new movie coming out, you finally get to see John Conner being the great leader the movies and show have talked about.

“I’m not saying they put Leno at 10 so they could cancel Chuck or anything else, I’m saying that now he’s there they’ve got all the cover they need to cancel Chuck,”

First your use of “or anything else,” means you aren’t saying anything at all (if you had said it like this, you’d mean or any other shows). That is contradiction number 1. The second is “they’ve got all the cover they need,” and the question is why do they need cover? You just said you’re not implying they moved Leno to 10 so they could cancel their average shows. Why would they hide behind something?

So answer straight up:

Are they canceling CHUCK because it does bad, or because they have fewer time slots now?

It’s because of less time slots. That is a reason and not an excuse. If they mention they didn’t have the slot for CHUCK because of LENO then they’re just admitting the truth and not coming up with an excuse for why they didn’t renew CHUCK. They’re stating the reason.

Perhaps you should take the advice you gave Julia and actually read the posts?