I personally don’t think the original pilot would have been much better than the one that aired and I don’t think it would have made much difference to the show either way because even the high quality episodes have been incredibly flawed because of the shows concept and execution, there’s just nobody in the entire show to really root for or care about and nothing short of a major concept and direction change for the show would solve that. Although I say all that having not read the script, but everything I’ve heard about it leads me to believe that’s probably a safe bet.

I would recommend reading James Cameron’s screenplays for Terminator and T2. Not only are they brilliantly written (the guy’s a genius), but the cybernetic organisms are well defined. From the first script:

“The Terminator’s an infiltration unit. Part man, part machine. Underneath it’s a hyper-alloy combat chassis. Microprocessor controlled. Fully armoured, very tough. Outside it’s living human tissue. Flesh, skin, hair, blood – grown for the cyborgs.”

They are part man, part machine, which is what makes the concept particularly facinating.

Personally I think Summer would elevate the ratings of the show just by being on it more than Dushku does. But that isn’t going to happen because the show is a Dushku vehicle.

Actually in the Terminator franchise, people aren’t supposed to connect with the Terminator. They’re supposed to connect with the two humans which are part of the Terminator formula: two humand and (at least) one Terminator. The humans are for the audience to connect with and the Terminator is WHY the audience is supposed to connect with the humans.

In Dollhouse, the only “humans” are the bad guys and the FBI agent. Everybody else is a Doll. The FBI agent really hasn’t been the focus. Personally I think the actor playing Ballard is doing a pretty good job given his role. I’m not sure he could carry the show as the central focus and POV of the show, because he’s not intense enough. I find Harry Lennix to be an acceptable actor, but he’s part of the “bad guys” and also isn’t intense enough to be the POV and focus.

Eliza could have been the focus and POV of the show, but not as a Doll. Perhaps she should have been a character on the run from the Dollhouse and Alpha and trying to expose the Dollhouse to the FBI agent. That would have put two reasonably likable characters as the focus of the show. Caroline would have had a more interesting permanent personality.

Adelle is interesting, but she’s more interesting as the controlled manager of the Dollhouse, not someone who’s a) been played for laughs in one episode, b) played as a damaged personality in a second episode, and c) in last week’s episode played as someone crying over the loss of a friend. I would prefer to see her portrayed as a cold-blooded bitch to take advantage of that fine Brit accent. She was at her best activating Mellie to kill the handler and sending Dominic to “The Attic”.

She needs to be someone who knows what the Dollhouse is really for and is perfectly fine with it. Instead, she acts like a low level manager who really doesn’t know what’s going on upstairs. This would appear to reflect the fact that Whedon originally didn’t have the Dollhouse as being this big conspiracy. So that implies the DeWitt character has been written for one scenario when the show has turned into another. Which again implies that Whedon doesn’t really know where he’s going with the show, as he indicated in his interview.

It would seem Whedon can’t really decide WHO these people all are and what their actual roles are in the show. Or perhaps he’s trying to make them all “human” in some way – which isn’t really workable, since the concept needs villains and heroes. They don’t have to be one-dimensional villains and heroes, but they do need to be identifiably one or the other. Instead he’s juggling them as villains and heroes from one week to the next, which further dilutes the audience’s ability to focus on the characterization.

Mr. Hack, IMO you’ve unintentionally underestimated Glau’s craft. Her work is excellent on TSSC. The show soars when she’s onscreen. Of course, technically the character has no personality, but the role requires great emotional availability to infuse a balance of brute strength and sophisticated restraint into the eyes of this cyborg. Glau has serious chops. She would elevate anything she applied her skill to. It’s DOLLHOUSE that lacks a personality and that responsibility is Joss Whendon’s. They’re his choices.

Fridays in the past have been the top night of TV viewing for the week. CBS and ABC have both accomplished this in the last 30 years.

The drop from a 2.0 to 1.8 to 1.7 to 1.6 was all due to poor writing. I’ve read the original pilot and while it would have made a better episode, I agree with many of the changes made. I understand why they were made. It was the right decision to make then, but the show should have focused on the FBI agent and done it from his POV. The sad fact remains that the follow up episodes would have been crap. It doesn’t matter that the show’s quality is now leagues better because the initial impression has already been made.

Which brings up the reason you renew: Make a new impression. Renewing would create buzz and hype because the reason would be “The quality is exceptional, they turned around the show from poor quality to hight quality.” Say it enough, get the press to repeat it, and people may buy it.

What if the first episode that 2.0 rating group had been of the quality of product they’re churning out now? Your talking better reviews, less “bad word of mouth,” before it ever aired and likely some hype. Then would it have dropped, held steady, or grown? I’d bet it would have held steady.

So if FOX is really believing in the product being delivered that is why there is talk of renewal. It’s profitable, it’s delivering quality goods. So now you just have to change the image the brand is currently portraying. Which if FOX renews is a much easier task than NBC has with HEROES.

If Caroline had been done differently then I could feel for Echo… In fact I wouldn’t consider her Echo but still Caroline and be hoping for her to break out of it. As it is now Echo is an improvement over Caroline.

Anyway, I agree. Echo shouldn’t be the focus, but I do feel that the last few episodes have started to spread the focus around a lot. Like on Adelle for example. I think the last few episodes have been a vast improvement over earlier in the series. I do want to see some advancement in the Alpha plot line.

If through Ballard we had learned who one of these dolls was before they became a doll and had some kind of relationship/desire to see that person return then I think the dolls and the slow tease of them not being completely wiped become more interesting. Although I will say the Caroline character they finally introduced is horrible and I have no desire to see Echo revert back to that.

You’re right though that this is more a Dushku vehicle than a Joss story. She has been improving though. I liked her in this last episode… a little. I LOVED Sierra in this last episode even if it was filler. I would watch the Sierra/Topher scenes again.

It would be interesting to see what Summer would do and I kind of hope for a second season to see if they could get her to be a guest doll. Maybe one that had been locked away in the attic but who gets free because of Alpha. OOO, the story potential.

Watching T:TSCC over again from the beginning I’m seeing what you’ve been saying about Glau’s acting cred. I think she could do the doll well and would love to see her in a role like this. Hm, maybe that could be a gimmick of the show. Get random cult stars from other shows to come on as dolls for single episodes. Fun.

The early focus of Dollhouse should have been on establishing Ballard, who he is, why he’s searching for the Dollhouse and more importantly why we care about him and that quest. The show desperately needs an anchor that viewers can cling to and root for and Ballard is the only character in the show that fits that mould. Once you’ve established him you can start to get more focused on the Dollhouse what it is and why it exists. If the first five episodes of the show had been about Ballard chasing Echo and the Dollhouse and then led into the sixth episode that we saw I think people would feel much happier and excited about the show.

And while Summer Glau is both a terrific actress and hugely popular – more so than Dushku in my opinion despite Dushku’s background on Buffy – she would have had a problem portraying Echo just as Dushku has – because Echo has no “character” to portray. Even playing a robot would be easier for Glau – or any actress – than that. Glau IS excellent at portraying psychologically damaged or unusual females, and she can express a character’s reactions even when the character – like Cameron on TSCC – doesn’t actually HAVE any, so she might well have done a much better job of portraying Echo’s lack of personality. But I’m not sure it would have helped the show overall since the character itself has no audience connection.

The truth is that the 2.0 debut was a strong number for a Friday so the audience interest was absolutely there at the start to get it through to a second season. It was even still (just about) there for the second episode, which off the top of my head I’m going to say got a 1.8.

I think when Fox moved the show to Fridays and it debuted with a 2.0 the press attention before the debut was largely removed from the shows future. It debuted strong and then because of the poor writing, acting and concept it died. It would have done that with or without the its cancelled before its even started buzz. If anything the fall would have been even greater because chances are Fox wouldn’t have moved it to Friday without all those stories.

Its also worth pointing out that there’s been some very weird ‘Fringe in trouble’ stories doing the rounds that don’t seem to have done much to change Fringe’s momentum.

Dollhouse’s press coverage probably had a lot to do with it being moved to Friday’s but I don’t think its had that much to do with the audience running for the hills every week.

That also means i won’t be buying a DVD. That only matters in that if I didn’t know it was going to be cancelled; watching that one episode would have made me watch more and I’m pretty sure that I would have been hooked enough that when the cancellation did come I would have bought the DVD (because that’s the way I am).

I avoid shows that this and other sites say are going to be cancelled or aren’t doing well. I had watched the first season of Chuck and liked it, and then for some reason went on a hiatus of watching it. When I found out it was likely going to be cancelled by reading this forum I had no interest in watching it again; before that I was just waiting for the opportunity or expected to catch up when the DVD came out. When the article about maybe that week would do better because of the affect of house not being on I actually decided to see the episode. For some reason it sounded like there was hope, and that even though I wouldn’t affect any numbers by watching it was the last time I could watch it with some optimism. Anyway.

My story just to point out that there are people who have had great shows dropped before (Firefly and Angel really hurt) who get attached to them and who don’t want to go through it again with a show they don’t care about yet. I’m already going through it with Terminator. Reading this site kept me from getting too involved with Dollhouse since it was being said it wouldn’t get renewed before it started airing, so I’m not so attached, but watch anyways because it came after Terminator (and I couldn’t help getting mini attached). But I watch with an eye for everything that I don’t like. The way someone would watch a movie they had heard nothing but bad reports about. You stop looking for the good and only look for the bad.

That sucks for shows but since I’m not a Nielson viewer it doesn’t make much difference. And since Nielsen viewers love all the shows that I don’t watch I doubt I’m reflective of their behaviours.

The base of DOLLHOUSE are Whedon fans who are huge internet people.

This is not Whedon at the top of his game. It makes me think he peaked with Angel and FireFly.

What’s hurting Dollhouse are:
- A concept many have massive issues with
- Five relatively poor initial episodes
- A relatively poor timeslot
- Being paired with All My Circuits followed by the even more dreadful (and, unlike T:SCC, virtually no audience synergism) Prison Break
- (This week only) a break in the schedule

Fix /all fix issues/ and Dollhouse would probably have respectable figures. But rumors of cancellation really have nothing to do with anything. They might impact advertiser’s enthusiasm, but not audience enthusiasm.

I doubt it would happen, and would place it as an extremely unlikely event. That doesn’t mean they won’t consider it.

I say that because they’re already seriously considering renewal despite bad numbers.

I just find the actor who plays Sierra more enjoyable to watch, not painful.

These Panels that you were talking about, what are they? What episodes are they based on? Or do you mean people who write on the boards?