“actually dollhouse is produced by: 20th century fox (Fox); Mutant Enemy (Joss Whedon); Diva Production (Eliza Dushku); the cost of any episode is between 1,2/2 million dollar. fox pays a third of the episode”

Is this really how it works? (I know jack squat about television production.) Big pocket FOX would pay only a third while small fry ME and Diva pay two-thirds? Either the industry is even more arcane and bizarre than I thought (entirely possible) or that makes no sense (entirely possible even if true).

It’s a shame that TSCC and Dollhouse look set to be doomed, but I think TSCC could have been a great pair with Fringe. Having said that, if Fringe lost it’s Idol lead in would it be half as successful as it has been?

chuck

Sci-fi isn’t all that popular on TV nowadays (besides like Fringe, which I’m wiling to bet has a lot of Lost’s audience) in that it can’t hope to even begin to match the amazing visuals one gets from a sci-fi movie in theaters. So sci-fi shows like Dollhouse get hardcore, “geek” fans but basically no impact on the mainstream.

And Fox has treated Whedon fairly, I bet Dollhouse would have underperformed in the post-Idol slot even. Whedon just keeps trying to put cable shows on network TV, that’s all there is to it.

TSCC isnt coming back its dead, its the reason it was exiled to Friday nights – aka The Dying TV Show Hospice Zone. Its the same reason Dull House was put on after TSCC. FOX knew both shows were doomed.

Having said that – I’m really enjoying Dollhouse (which I shouldn’t be as I’m a Uker). It starts here on May 19th on Scifi (really small channel).

Regarding Serenity – I’ve been searching, it would appear that it’s made a profit after DVD sales, TV rights, rentals etc. Obviously I can’t find anything official, but it had made a profit.

I would agree – Joss’ works tend to pull small audiences in the US (but with a vocal fan-base), which sort of screwed up the Serenity release. Univeral believed the hype and left it to the fans to create a buzz. Mostly we ended up just promoting it to ourselves and we were already sold.

The UK is slightly different though – Buffy and Angel were well loved. Showed on the BBC to millions – percentage wise Joss’s shows are hits on TV turf. I know this is a US site, so you’re interested in US numbers, but it’s always interested me that figures for sci-fi type shows are way higher over here. Must be something to do with the greater acceptance of this genre in the UK. Serenity was number one in the box office over here, it won Film of the Year on the BBC.

I would agree though, that Joss should think of making shows for the smaller cable network – it would still make a profit and work for him and the US model. However, in the UK, Joss should make shows for the BBC – and then 11million people WOULD turn in and I would be a happy bunny .

I don’t think we’ll see Joss coming back to US TV though if Dollhouse is not renewed, not for some time anyway. He’s off down the film route, Cabin in the Woods opens next year. It wasn’t as though Joss came up with Dollhouse and then pitched it to fox in the same way as Firefly or Buffy before it.

Complaining about prostitution on Dollhouse is the last thing people should be worrying about when the Internet is riddled with porn and Craigslist is being charged with facilitating prostitution with its ads.

By now, if you’ve watched the show for five minutes, you should know that the Dollhouse is a huge international conspiracy to do…Something Bad. It’s not just a bunch of people being rented out as hookers.

I think one of the flaws in the show was that, originally, Whedon’s concept was just that – it wasn’t a big conspiracy. Fox was the one who suggested that it be bigger and better than that. So we have half the episodes being completely at odds with the other half because the writers don’t know which concept they’re writing for.

In order for Dollhouse to have been successful in my opinion the concept and a lot of the storylines and casting would have totally had to be redone.

Bottom line is that these shows didn’t have enough live viewers in the right age groups to justify continuing airing.

Also, to me you can’t compare The X-Files or Buffy to Dollhouse. The X-Files made an effort to cut costs by being shot in Vancouver plus Gillian Anderson was a total unknown that they didn’t have to pay much for. None of the actors on Buffy were well known or expensive. Even Dark Angel was filmed in Vancouver. SciFi shows typically aren’t filmed in the U.S. and make every effort to cut costs. Buffy was on a small network where low ratings were acceptable.

Fox moving TSCC and Dollhouse to Fridays pretty much told me at the time that they were only going to last this season and then be cancelled. I don’t know of any network that moves a show that they consider successful on another night to Fridays. Fridays is where you put shows that will just air out their episodes in the can. I was just happy that they aired all of the episodes for TSCC unlike Firefly where they had 3 unaired episodes that could only be seen on the DVD.

On a random note, I think it’s atrocious that shows like “wife swap” can get the same ratings as complex, fresh and thought-provoking shows like dollhouse and TSCC. What a worry..

Having said that, Fox should give both these shows another season and see if they gather more of an audience. Stop pulling great shows before their time! Sci-fi shows are never going to have the majority of viewers (and no ghost whisper definately does NOT count in that category), so stop trying to make them. Have a few quality sci-fi shows and then a few cheap lame ones to make money. At least that way we will have SOMETHING to watch that requires more than a single neuron to understand it.

It is all so clear now. The little girl in the last ep was just a carrot for season 2, the preteen Dollhouse. “Half the age, twice the price” right. Oh, so that line was foreshadowing, damn those writers are smart, not crass. Let’s really “challenge” the audience and make some Art.

Of course the writers knew what they were doing, they wrote it. And prostitution and rape don’t need support, they’re doing fine I suspect. And thank you Dollhouse because I would have never known they were a problem if it weren’t for Echo. I think I learned about a problem with the environment this week too. I learned I didn’t want to die the week before. Maybe Dollhouse is trying to make us smarter than 5th graders. That was Fox’s master plan all along.

All kidding aside(bad jokes are why I love this website), suggesting an alternate direction for a show, or questioning what aspects of the direction taken lead to its abysmal ratings(not its relative merit mind you) do not equate to the assertion that the writers are without thought or shouldn’t follow their creative instincts. My assertion was maybe those instincts are bad and the thoughts were misguided when your success or failure is measured in millions of viewers. I love T:TSCC and I like Dollhouse, so I am saddened by what happened to them; but it doesn’t surprise me given their tones.

Next up, either in the finale or in the next (non-existent) season, we’ll all be shocked–shocked!–to find out that Amy Acker’s character is a doll named Whiskey. Casual viewers react with a “Huh, whuh, why? That’s stupid.” The rest of the dwindling audience just yawns.

I like serialized shows. I like Whedon. But Dollhouse, structurally, doesn’t lend itself to large, interesting, sweeping arcs in the storytelling. Or even consistent characters we can still like in the one-offs. It was doomed to fail.

What? Are you suggesting that a film which didn’t even make its budget back (never mind its marketing expenses or the approximately 45% of the gross that goes to the theaters) at the domestic box office didn’t do well? A film which didn’t even make its budget back (never mind its marketing expenses or the approximately 45% of the gross that goes to the theaters) if you combine domestic AND international box office? Are you seriously suggesting that? How can you seriously suggest such a thing? Don’t you know it made eleventy gazillion dollars on DVD and Amazon Unbox and promptly paid for both itself AND a dozen sequels! It was a cash windfall for Universal! Not since “My Big Fat Greek Wedding,” “The Blair Witch Project” and “Slumdog Millionaire” has there been a film as profitable as “Serenity”!!

I hope the Whedonuts and the Brownturds tar and feather you for your slanderous lies! Serenity Now! Serenity Now! Serenity Now!

Apparently you’d rather not be challenged and made to think about moral issues when you watch a TV show. That’s fine and it’s your prerogative. But that doesn’t mean the writers don’t know exactly what they doing in dealing with the issue, it doesn’t mean that they’re somehow supporting prostitution and rape (newsflash: They’re not), and it doesn’t mean the show needs to change to fit *your* expectations in particular; whether a show with a premise like Dollhouse’s can ever be financially successful is another issue, but I’d argue there are too many other factors in play to pin it on this one particular thing.

In fact, if the show DIDN’T deal with the prostitution angle, I would call it unrealistic and dishonest as to how the technology would actually be used by a clandestine black market business.

I saw Dollhouse today. Episode 11 was very good. But way to late to make the show interesting. Next week feels like from the trailer at least the series finale. The show had a great idea but very like Bionic woman last year just couldnt make it work. The storys are just 2 dull. The only reason i kept watching was Paul trying to take the dollhouse down. otherwise i wouldve stopped watching.

Same principle here, there was little interest in the show from the beginning outside of Joss fans, most of which were alienated by the writing and exploitive aspects of the show. He should have passed on it from the beginning.

I just don’t understand how anyone thought it appropriate to launch a show with an ep about child molestation. Yeah, I just worked hard all week, let me check out this show that cuts from shots of ED’s butt on the dance floor to a little girl getting kidnapped by a rapist and some suckers. They made the show too much about a brothel, hookers, pimps, and johns when it didn’t have to be about that at all. Instead, they want us to look past or beyond that. Like I can when they throw in child prostitution as a filler storyline this week? Oh that’s right, we’re helping her get better by sending an adult hooker to show her it will be ok one day. WAY too much rape on this show. Guess season six of Buffy wasn’t enough for JW.

It’s a shame. Fox may have marketed it originally as the Summer/Eliza block; but for me it was the Lena/Olivia block and that I will miss. Dichen too I’d watch Lena eat cereal so it was never a problem for me, but both Joss and Josh need to understand that most people don’t want to wallow in crazy people’s heads for entertainment. At most, they want cops to catch or kill them. Well I guess we’ll all be smarter than fifth graders in the fall.

If the former, I can definitely see how the show could be profitable for them.

looking forward to next season even tho i doubt there will be one

Best episode of this season BY FAR this week, hopefully it finishes strong.

Haven’t read all the comments yet…any mention of Chuck?

Just kidding, all you Chucksters…i would have put a winking smiley-face, but i don’t know how

Chad: “They wouldn’t have killed off Cameron, even I don’t believe Friedman is that stupid.”

Yes, I believe he IS that stupid. I didn’t use to, but since the finale, yes, he IS.

“Also if you followed interviews and such, Cameron doubted herself and her ability to protect John.”

Summer tells people what Josh tells her to tell people. I don’t think she ever understood the character other than what Josh told her to believe. She also had a romantic take on Cameron’s nature since she’s female.

Her returning as Allison Young would be a complete waste of her talent. Contrary to Notty’s dislike, Cameron was THE best character on the show and had the most storytelling potential, while Summer is THE most popular character on the show. Friedman acknowledged that to some extent by giving her two episodes to herself, but I think he resented the fact that his beloved Sarah Connor ended up being called a bitch by even the fans at one point.

And he certainly wanted to screw with the Jameron shippers, as that travesty of a “sex scene” in the finale proves beyond all doubt.

Remember, at WonderCon they showed a spoiler video with seconds from the scene between John and Cameron at the very end, JUST to stir up the Jameron shippers. THEN they do this hideously bad scene in the finale. It was enough to make me puke. It had to be deliberate. They KNEW the show was done for and they were just shafting the fans at that point just to tick off Fox.

Because Friedman doesn’t have the cojones to take responsibility for screwing up a guaranteed franchise spinoff like Terminator beyond all recognition.

He’s still BSing everybody by claiming he’s going to pitch a season 3 to WB and Fox when he HAS to know by now that the show is done for. He’s a BS artist, nothing more.

As for Dollhouse, it’s done for. Too many mistakes, too few viewers. It’s over as much as TSCC is over. I just hope the final episode is better than the crap TSCC did for a finale.

im hoping your being sarcastic.. but i do miss your poetry!
Yay flashpoint! great ratings, and a great episode.
if NBC replaced HD with L&O repeats, who thinks they would get more viewers?
[raises hand]