Thank you.

“I DO believe, ultimately, in trusting in collective wisdom, if for no other reason than that collective wisdom is going to prevail ultimately anyway”.

I personally find that to be an abhorrent philosophy, especially in where it has led historically.

If everyone else ignores a mugging, a beating, a murder, then you’ll do it too? It is better to think women lesser because others do too?

Are TV shows of the same importance? Of course not, but it doesn’t change the fact that collective wisdom can often times be as dumb as **** and I have no respect for those who don’t think for themselves.

“I’m not talking about Dollhouse fans meeting each other and making friends, that part’s only positive”.

Nice to hear that we don’t offend you in that way.

“But the belief that you can push a show to success on the internet leads to a waste of time that’s tragic. Sorry to “go there” again, but look at the Dollhouse DVD sales. How much of a difference did all that work make”?

Doesn’t matter, if it’s what we choose to do and we aren’t hurting anyone then why does it bother you? Honestly, you are going to use your time to try to convince a bunch of people doing something that will, in your opinion, not make any difference? Why would you go to that much trouble? Isn’t that even more “tragic”?

“And it bugs me on philosophical grounds”.

So you never talk up things that you like? If that is true then you must never talk down things either. Therefore, if you neither talk up nor talk down things then that means that you don’t give your opinion. Relies and comments are almost exclusively people’s opinions, therefore you must object to the very concept of any site that allows the readers to reply? If that is the case then isn’t it hypocritical to come here and post?

“It’s the writer of a show’s job to build his audience. It’s not the viewers’.”

Actually, I’d imagine that it would be the advertising and marketing people whose job that is.

“Your job is to watch the show and hopefully enjoy it”.

Excuse me, NOBODY tells me “what my job is”. If you allow others to tell that to you, then I have even less respect for you. If you are this philosophically opposed to other people speaking their minds then I really don’t think that the Internet is ever something that you will be comfortable with.

“He gets paid very well for what he does”.

I’m sure he does, but it’s still not his job.

“Sure, tell your friends about a show you like, but if you encounter an executive producer on the internet telling you that you’re not a real fan unless you throw money at the show or harass the network, consider finding a show with an executive producer more in touch with television’s proper place in the world”.

I am not aware of any such executive producers and fail to see the relevance of the reference.

Protesting works the same way as supporting something. Pass the word on to others and see if they do the same.

It’s much easier, and much more effective. I don’t expect Dollhouse to become a hit, but if it does, it’ll be because Joss moved some stuff around and turned the second season episodes into something that ripples through the viewership successfully. It won’t be because Group A steamrollered Group B on an internet discussion board.

And obviously, there are people in history like Martin Luther King and Harvey Milk who make their lives about changing people’s minds. But again, that’s what I’m saying. That kind of effort should be reserved for matters of social justice. This is television.

When exactly did Joss say that we need to buy the DVDs or else? I’m not part of the Whedonverse so I wouldn’t know?

And what exactly is the problem in getting fans to support? I guess it’s OK to download music illegally and stuff since you know it doesn’t matter if you spend your money to support an artist and all that and they disappear off the charts.

But that’s another debate entirely.

So I guess I should be offended by Warner Brothers telling Knots Landing fans that if they want all 14 seasons on DVD we have to come out and buy season 2. I guess I shouldn’t buy it for fear of being “told what to do” and not wanting to be a lemming and then subsequently complain on a chat board that season 3 of KL will never be released.

But I think it comes down to realizing you’re a drop in the ocean. If you like a show, you pass it on to all the drops around you. Then your job is done. If the people you passed it on to feel the same way you do, it’ll ripple through the ocean like a wave. And that way even a slow offbeat show like Mad Men can put up a good number, at least for the premiere.

But if you pass the show on and it doesn’t turn into a wave, it means the people you passed it on to didn’t respond to it. And you can’t change that. You can waste a lot of your life force trying to, but you can’t actually do it.

I don’t believe that the collective is particularly wise. How could they be, if by their very nature, they desire to be told what to do? And if on the rare occasion the collective can agree on what they want, they’ve got a 50-50 shot of their choices placing them correctly on the arc of history. (And they’re wrong half the time.)

Does this relate to Dollhouse? Probably not.

I DO believe, ultimately, in trusting in collective wisdom, if for no other reason than that collective wisdom is going to prevail ultimately anyway. I’m not talking about Dollhouse fans meeting each other and making friends, that part’s only positive. But the belief that you can push a show to success on the internet leads to a waste of time that’s tragic. Sorry to “go there” again, but look at the Dollhouse DVD sales. How much of a difference did all that work make?

And it bugs me on philosophical grounds. It’s the writer of a show’s job to build his audience. It’s not the viewers’. Your job is to watch the show and hopefully enjoy it. He gets paid very well for what he does. Sure, tell your friends about a show you like, but if you encounter an executive producer on the internet telling you that you’re not a real fan unless you throw money at the show or harass the network, consider finding a show with an executive producer more in touch with television’s proper place in the world.

If I had to rant and rave about an unbroadcasted episode, it would be the pilot. That doesn’t appear to have gotten the same level of hype alas, and I don’t know to what extent my enthusiasm about the pilot is based on lowered expectations, given Episode 1 was so awful.

Still, glad to see E1 is doing well on iTunes. If Fox is serious about the whole “Make it up in DVD/etc sales” thing then it may well be the best news for television we could have. Smart TV is rarely popular TV, yet it’s almost always the case that the smart shows are the ones people actively and enthusiastically watch and follow rather than leave on as transitory entertainment.

If you’re just after advertising eyeballs, then the distinction doesn’t matter, as it doesn’t matter why the TV is on as long as it is on in the first place. Actually pro-actively courting DVD sales changes the dynamic.

Yeah, I’m using the term “DVD sales”, but of course I’m including iTunes/Amazon VOD/etc sales too.

The other thing is that there’s an incentive for Fox to do this: DVR usage. People are skipping ads like never before. Ads will continue to be a source of revenue for many years to come, but they’re going to be declining. So getting other sources of funding to ensure the network is profitable is going to become increasingly necessary.

I’m a little more optimistic about Dollhouse going into a third season than I have been. I “see” a logic Fox could be using, and it seems fairly compelling, in terms of doing what they can to make Dollhouse a useful experiment in the future of TV. The key elements are:

- Cut the budget to the bone to reduce the exposure
- Ensure it’s a show people actively love
- Sell it.

This takes time to do and see if it can be made to work, so I do see a third season as almost inevitable, unless the second season completely tanks. If it drops below a 1.0, then, sure, I think the future is in doubt, but that’d probably be because of an assumption DVD sales will be too low, rather than because advertising revenues will be.

If each season rakes in 500,000 DVD set sales (yes, Season One is not likely to get that far in the short term, it made less than 70,000 in its first week, but it was a poor season and the show hasn’t hit its stride. Plus that’s US sales only), with Fox getting a take of $15 per set (half the $30 Amazon is selling the set for), and if it’s true that S2′s episodes are costing around half a million each, then that’s the second season paid for in DVD sales with a little profit on top.

In reality Dollhouse is not going to get to half a million per season any time soon, but advertising is still high enough to make up the difference. Time will tell.

From where do you come to that conclusion? While I said that it was from from perfect, which is my honest opinion of it, I also said that I preferred it to at least 90% of the (incredibly bad) alternatives. Imo a show that falls into the top 90% would be classified as at least good.

“but you are “more than happy” to put up your money and fight for it”.

Absolutely. Almost every show that I have ever enjoyed has been canceled rather than allowed to reach a natural end. And usually quite quickly. When a show that I enjoy actually lasts for one entire Season then that’s a victory for me. The opportunity to fight for one is more than welcome and comforts me in the knowledge that I at least had the chance to try.

I don’t believe that I have ever bad-mouthed another show, or a fan of another show. I don’t try to put any pressure on anyone, but I will absolutely write posts such as “Wow! Look at the really good deal that Amazon is having on _____ right now!” Rarely will it work, but sometimes it does and I am glad to have at least tried. I have convinced several people to try Firefly, all of whom have truly enjoyed it. It’s not for everyone, but a lot of people who do give it a try honestly seem to enjoy it. Just three days ago I convinced someone to try Veronica Mars, as it seemed like the type of show that he would like given his listed interests, and indeed he did. No matter what, it’s a nice thing to send someone in the direction of a show that they wind up really enjoying.

“I’m sorry, that’s kind of strange to me. What happened to casting your vote and trusting to collective wisdom? Isn’t that how democracy works?”

I do not comprehend the thinking behind this sentence. Trust? I sure as heck trust them to cancel almost every show that I have ever liked, as happens every Season. But why should I be happy with that? What shows do you like and do you honestly mean to tell me that you are happy when they are canceled as it was a democratic decision?

And it should be obvious by reading this site that whether or not a show is renewed or canceled has much more to do with the small percentage of people who are chosen by Nielsen then any other factor. Probably ever other factor combined (unless the Network is run by Dawn Ostroff) is worth less than the decisions made by that small segment. Even if democracy was a desirable goal, then how is that democracy?

Where do you see that happening?

I am assuming that you are not talking about Epitaph One, as Epitaph One was never purchased or shown by the Fox Network and so in the U.S. does not in any way fit the above criteria.

I’m not sure 99% of the sales could be attributed to that, without further evidence.

I’d be willing to bet that 99% of the purchases were made by the Whedon faithful with a small percentage of those sales representing more than one purchase by the same people.

FOX never seem to get good numbers on a friday. Dollhouse id like to see do well but i wont be crying when its cancelled. I still cant believe there were so many bad episodes made, It still makes me sick thinking of the first 5 eps. And ep 7 and 10 oh hell the last 2 werent much better either. Epitah one was ok but i understand why FOX didnt air it as it felt like a series finale.

But there is a point where a line gets crossed in these communities and people are being asked, sometimes pressured, to join armies to fight for screwed-up failing TV shows. To DVR-record the show AND download it on Hulu to look like more than one person to the network. To bombard the network switchboard to make the fanbase look bigger than it is. And now you see people basically being told they’re not real fans unless they lay out money to “support” a show that’s supposed to be on free television. That’s why all those commercials are there – so you can watch it for free if you want.

AO, you don’t think Dollhouse is that good a TV show, but you are “more than happy” to put up your money and fight for it. I’m sorry, that’s kind of strange to me. What happened to casting your vote and trusting to collective wisdom? Isn’t that how democracy works?

Makes me wonder how much your ‘reporting’ is worth, really…

First, some people believe that that is stealing. Obviously you don’t and that conversation has been had billions of times already and I doubt that it ever changes anyone’s minds, so I doubt that anything constructive would be had by arguing it again now. But some people do believe that it is wrong, especially when doing the right thing only costs $1.99.

Second, as it has been well explained here, at Nick C’s and elsewhere, The Fox Studio has put up more of their own money in order to enable Dollhouse to get a 2nd Season. I am sure that the Fox Studio had several reasons for doing so, but obviously the primary one was because they expected to make that money back in DVD/BR sales, iTunes, and through other revenue sources. Perhaps it will not do as well as they had expected, but for fans of the show who are thankful to have it back and wish to see it continue, then the single most effective action that we can do is spend money on it. If you don’t enjoy it enough to care if it continues then that’s fine, no worries. It’s your opinion and your money and you are entitled to do do what you want with it. But for those of us fighting and hoping to keep this show alive then it would be hypocritical not to spend money on it.

In my case, Dollhouse is not my all time favorite show ever. I will readily admit that the first Season was far from perfect, but it has a lot of potential and imo it’s still much better than 90% of the complete and utter excrement that’s on Network TV. And I have lost far, far too many shows in the past to not fight as hard as I can now, when doing so might actually give a show that I enjoy (like Dollhouse, like Chuck) a chance to continue. So I am MORE than happy to have the opportunity to put up my money and fight for Dollhouse.

I agree that Epitaph one and the un-aired pilot are two of the better and possibly the best episodes of Dollhouse so far. Whether it’s worth $2 is a matter of one’s personal budget. Since I’m broke, I downloaded them elsewhere.

I think most of the real Whedon fans will have bought the DVD, so E1 being number one on iTunes implies less committed fans or people who have just heard the Internet buzz about the show. So it’s good news for Dollhouse to some degree – we just don’t know how much it will matter to actual ratings when the show returns. In that respect, given the low numbers, probably not much at all.

The show will survive or not depending on its promotion by the network and the quality of the episodes, not its iTunes or DVD performance.

Hopefully at least some of those downloads are going to people who are either new to the show or were wavering in their commitment enough to pass on the DVD/BR. And hopefully after seeing the quality of Epitaph One it will encourage them enough to watch it next Season. Realistically, DH still has a lot of hurdles to overcome in order to get it’s Back 9, but I’m happy with any and all steps that get it to that finish line. Go DH!

Some people might think that iTunes and the studios don’t regularly put out the info about what is necessary to become a #1 hit on iTunes because the numbers are much, much smaller than the media would prefer you to believe! I am here to tell you, though, that iTunes doesn’t regularly release that info because those numbers are so irrationally large that no one could possibly comprehend them! If people knew how wildly successful iTunes was becoming, TV as we know it would cease to exist, and the Powers That Be aren’t ready for that day to come just yet!

Six months ago I declared that iTunes would be one of the ways that Dollhouse’s ratings would grow, grow, grow compared to its seemingly paltry Nielsen ratings! I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I just have to say that this evidence from iTunes prove that I was 1000% correct! Dollhouse’s iTunes’ ranking is a clear sign that Joss’s spectacular vision is shattering our understanding of what television can do and taking the medium to a place no one has ever been to before!

Dollhouse returns in 40 days! Watch it or else!