Comments on: Three Rivers: DOA http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:20:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Meli http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-137617 Meli Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:44:27 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-137617 If CBS wants their Sunday night lineup to succeed they need to do something very different. Football and golf on CBS continually push the start times back so that the show airing at 10 often doesn't start until 10:30 or 11:00, which means you lose vierwers because kids have to go to school on Mondays and adults have to go to work. That's way too late for many people, and no, not everyone owns a DVR. My proposal is that CBS only plan for three hours of new primetime programming on Sunday night (7-10 PM) instead of the current four (7-11 PM). That means if football or golf run long, you have 60 Minutes, Amazing Race, whatever show replaces Three Rivers (probably Cold Case), and then you might put a CSI rerun on or something. That way the current shows have a better chance of doing well in ratings, and it doesn't unfairly punish the show that gets the 10 PM Sunday slot. If CBS wants their Sunday night lineup to succeed they need to do something very different. Football and golf on CBS continually push the start times back so that the show airing at 10 often doesn’t start until 10:30 or 11:00, which means you lose vierwers because kids have to go to school on Mondays and adults have to go to work. That’s way too late for many people, and no, not everyone owns a DVR.

My proposal is that CBS only plan for three hours of new primetime programming on Sunday night (7-10 PM) instead of the current four (7-11 PM). That means if football or golf run long, you have 60 Minutes, Amazing Race, whatever show replaces Three Rivers (probably Cold Case), and then you might put a CSI rerun on or something. That way the current shows have a better chance of doing well in ratings, and it doesn’t unfairly punish the show that gets the 10 PM Sunday slot.

]]> By: Connor http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-136771 Connor Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:30:44 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-136771 Bill Gorman? how does Renew/Cancel thread work? just wondering cause this really helps. As for CBS.I wouldn`t be surprised if Cold Case ends this season.CBS need a new Sunday and this season`s isn`t very good.Three Rivers is a let down and Cold Case & Amazing Race is ageing.I say dump Cold Case and add maybe a new reality or fresh drama to capture ratings. Also ditch The Wednesday Comedies and Change Friday`s lineup a bit. Bill Gorman? how does Renew/Cancel thread work? just wondering cause this really helps.

As for CBS.I wouldn`t be surprised if Cold Case ends this season.CBS need a new Sunday and this season`s isn`t very good.Three Rivers is a let down and Cold Case & Amazing Race is ageing.I say dump Cold Case and add maybe a new reality or fresh drama to capture ratings.

Also ditch The Wednesday Comedies and Change Friday`s lineup a bit.

]]> By: Moonlightfanforever http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-135899 Moonlightfanforever Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:23:07 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-135899 I still miss Moonlight. Give Three Rivers a chance! The critics were planning the funeral even before the first episode aired!! I watched the first show, I liked it. Alex O'loughlin is a very talented actor and deserves all the best. What type of ratings do you expect opposite football anyway???????????????????????????? I still miss Moonlight. Give Three Rivers a chance! The critics were planning the funeral even before the first episode aired!! I watched the first show, I liked it. Alex O’loughlin is a very talented actor and deserves all the best. What type of ratings do you expect opposite football anyway????????????????????????????

]]> By: Heradite http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-135555 Heradite Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:43:54 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-135555 Did Gary Unmarried get a full season pickup or just a half season pickup? Did Gary Unmarried get a full season pickup or just a half season pickup?

]]> By: Zach http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-135309 Zach Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:52:52 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-135309 I just hope Cold Case lasts long enough for 22-23 episodes. This is most likely the last season but seven years is nothing to sneeze at. And I'm sorry, I don't know how WAT got the ratings they did in the last year or so unless they were people that liked soap operas at night. I just hope Cold Case lasts long enough for 22-23 episodes. This is most likely the last season but seven years is nothing to sneeze at. And I’m sorry, I don’t know how WAT got the ratings they did in the last year or so unless they were people that liked soap operas at night.

]]> By: Jen http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-135134 Jen Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:10:01 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-135134 I guess CBS this year won't have to cancel good ratings shows as they did last season with W. a Trace to make space for new shows. With Three Rivers and Cold Case cancelations they have spots for their new shows. I guess CBS this year won’t have to cancel good ratings shows as they did last season with W. a Trace to make space for new shows.
With Three Rivers and Cold Case cancelations they have spots for their new shows.

]]> By: Mike11 http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-134752 Mike11 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 04:56:11 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134752 Why are Two and a half men and The big bang theory even on that list? They are already renewed for another season. Why are Two and a half men and The big bang theory even on that list? They are already renewed for another season.

]]> By: Brad http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-134559 Brad Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:12:53 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134559 Good Wife and whatever:LA got picked up for a full season. Good Wife and whatever:LA got picked up for a full season.

]]> By: Meli http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-134537 Meli Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:47:19 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134537 Point taken Bill. The idea that a production is either SAG or AFTRA and that affects whether a show gets cancelled is about as plausible as the full moon telling you which TV show to watch. There are good actors, directors, writers, etc. in SAG and AFTRA both, as well as some really bad ones. And as anyone who is a fan of 'Arrested Development' can tell you, you can lead the public to a good show but you can't make them watch it. Point taken Bill.

The idea that a production is either SAG or AFTRA and that affects whether a show gets cancelled is about as plausible as the full moon telling you which TV show to watch. There are good actors, directors, writers, etc. in SAG and AFTRA both, as well as some really bad ones. And as anyone who is a fan of ‘Arrested Development’ can tell you, you can lead the public to a good show but you can’t make them watch it.

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-134401 Bill Gorman Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:55:14 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134401 Meli, "we" are doing so such thing. "Sharon" is. Meli, “we” are doing so such thing. “Sharon” is.

]]> By: Meli http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-4/#comment-134398 Meli Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:53:00 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134398 Wait, now we're blaming which UNION produces a show for the fact it's failing? Not bad acting, writing by commitee, bad-premise-but-we-have-a-big-star-in-the-role-so-we-assume-the-audience-will-watch-anyway because-we-think-you're-stupid-and-we're-not-hiding-it, bad directing, crappy time slot, lousy promotion? REALLY??? Wait, now we’re blaming which UNION produces a show for the fact it’s failing? Not bad acting, writing by commitee, bad-premise-but-we-have-a-big-star-in-the-role-so-we-assume-the-audience-will-watch-anyway because-we-think-you’re-stupid-and-we’re-not-hiding-it, bad directing, crappy time slot, lousy promotion? REALLY???

]]> By: Riff Rafferty http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-134366 Riff Rafferty Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:13:59 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134366 Is Sharon that loony film editor Joe B***n from Finke's site? The one who always goes on and on about how AFTRA shows are scab projects that are prone to cause global annihilation because they're shot on evil digital video? Mmm, yes, I'm sure SAG-based "Eastwick" and "Dollhouse" will remain next season while AFTRA-based "Modern Family" and "The Vampire Diaries" won't. And on topic, "Numb3rs" might be done. Sadly, as I think it's probably CBS' best procedural. Because of the budget. Granted, it was reduced considerably to get this season, but I admittedly wasn't expecting to hear last spring that CBS was contemplating swinging the axe on it. Heck, who knows -- maybe they'll just 86 the entire lineup at once to save money, the same way they did with Saturday in 2004. What's 3 more hours of Crime Time encores? Is Sharon that loony film editor Joe B***n from Finke’s site? The one who always goes on and on about how AFTRA shows are scab projects that are prone to cause global annihilation because they’re shot on evil digital video? Mmm, yes, I’m sure SAG-based “Eastwick” and “Dollhouse” will remain next season while AFTRA-based “Modern Family” and “The Vampire Diaries” won’t.

And on topic, “Numb3rs” might be done. Sadly, as I think it’s probably CBS’ best procedural. Because of the budget. Granted, it was reduced considerably to get this season, but I admittedly wasn’t expecting to hear last spring that CBS was contemplating swinging the axe on it. Heck, who knows — maybe they’ll just 86 the entire lineup at once to save money, the same way they did with Saturday in 2004. What’s 3 more hours of Crime Time encores?

]]> By: The Morning Feed - ArtsBeat Blog - NYTimes.com http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-134007 The Morning Feed - ArtsBeat Blog - NYTimes.com Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:55:53 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-134007 [...] that the site says are in jeopardy are “Hank” (on ABC), “Three Rivers” (on CBS) and “Dollhouse” (on [...] [...] that the site says are in jeopardy are “Hank” (on ABC), “Three Rivers” (on CBS) and “Dollhouse” (on [...]

]]> By: ABCFanatic2009 http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133955 ABCFanatic2009 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:28:35 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133955 oh gosh Cold Case/Three Rivers's ratings are so terrible! Eleventh Hour did better last season. So cold case and three rivers are going to be canceled oh gosh Cold Case/Three Rivers’s ratings are so terrible!

Eleventh Hour did better last season.

So cold case and three rivers are going to be canceled

]]> By: Joseph http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133934 Joseph Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:11:19 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133934 All "Cold Case" fans know the show will be on for just 1 more season. However, the timeslot does not help. When It was at 9 p.m. It got 12 million; now at 10 p.m is getting less.... All “Cold Case” fans know the show will be on for just 1 more season. However, the timeslot does not help. When It was at 9 p.m. It got 12 million; now at 10 p.m is getting less….

]]> By: vsaint http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133927 vsaint Wed, 07 Oct 2009 05:44:20 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133927 Bryan - Why would they pickup Three Rivers? There ratings are bad even by ABC standards. It's produced by CBS Studios. If ABC wanted another Medical Drama, they would get Shonda Rhimes to create another spin off from Grey's Anatomy. Maybe Katherine Heigl, Mcsteamy, there's enough there to spin off and do better in the ratings than pickup Three Rivers poor ratings, poor reviews. Bryan – Why would they pickup Three Rivers?
There ratings are bad even by ABC standards. It’s produced by CBS Studios.
If ABC wanted another Medical Drama, they would get Shonda Rhimes to create another spin off from Grey’s Anatomy.
Maybe Katherine Heigl, Mcsteamy, there’s enough there to spin off and do better in the ratings than pickup Three Rivers poor ratings, poor reviews.

]]> By: Dan http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133764 Dan Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:04:01 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133764 Red - I dont see any test episodes. If Numb3rs is in any danger it will run its course normally, and then be axed. Like Without a Trace. Red – I dont see any test episodes. If Numb3rs is in any danger it will run its course normally, and then be axed. Like Without a Trace.

]]> By: Tony http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133761 Tony Wed, 07 Oct 2009 01:59:09 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133761 Bryan - I don't see ABC picking up Three Rivers. Bryan – I don’t see ABC picking up Three Rivers.

]]> By: Red http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133708 Red Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:51:49 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133708 Well RW I expect Cbs to stay with Numbers until the end of the season. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a special episode of The Good Wife or Flashpoint in Numbers' timeslot very soon. CBS will test out other shows at 10 to see if Numbers is tiring out and what they can put there in its place. Numbers is definitely in danger no matter how you look at it. Well RW I expect Cbs to stay with Numbers until the end of the season. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see a special episode of The Good Wife or Flashpoint in Numbers’ timeslot very soon. CBS will test out other shows at 10 to see if Numbers is tiring out and what they can put there in its place. Numbers is definitely in danger no matter how you look at it.

]]> By: Red http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133696 Red Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:43:08 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133696 So many here are convinced CBS will just let go of one returning series this season and "Cold Case" is it ... There is only so many time slots available and when a network is doing as well as CBS, they can cut their losses even easier than the other nets and cancel 2, maybe even 3 veterans this year and, after 6 seasons, an expensive series like "Numbers" would defintely be next on this list. If Cbs has some promising new series they need to make room for, you can be sure "Numbers" will be wrapping it up at season's end. So many here are convinced CBS will just let go of one returning series this season and “Cold Case” is it …

There is only so many time slots available and when a network is doing as well as CBS, they can cut their losses even easier than the other nets and cancel 2, maybe even 3 veterans this year and, after 6 seasons, an expensive series like “Numbers” would defintely be next on this list.

If Cbs has some promising new series they need to make room for, you can be sure “Numbers” will be wrapping it up at season’s end.

]]> By: Cullen http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133694 Cullen Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:42:08 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133694 Bill do you think CBS's happy with Medium's performance at this point or were they expecting more? Bill do you think CBS’s happy with Medium’s performance at this point or were they expecting more?

]]> By: RW http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133681 RW Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:27:51 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133681 Sorry Dan but Numb3rs is a goner unless it ticks up. If it remains in the 1.8-1.6 demo range or even goes down, which seems more possible, it's toast. Regardless of how the shows before it do, an aging show like Numb3rs is just too costly for CBS to stay with - especially with numbers like those. CBS is doing too well to just keep shows around out of loyalty. After all they could save themselves a ton of money dumping it and are still likely to get just as good or only slighty lower demos with another fresher drama since there are no other scripted series in the timeslot and yet CBS would still remain competitive for the night. Add it all up and it's a no-brainer that Numb3rs should be orange, not green. In fact, I think they'll try out Flashpoint in the timeslot before long. Sorry Dan but Numb3rs is a goner unless it ticks up. If it remains in the 1.8-1.6 demo range or even goes down, which seems more possible, it’s toast. Regardless of how the shows before it do, an aging show like Numb3rs is just too costly for CBS to stay with – especially with numbers like those. CBS is doing too well to just keep shows around out of loyalty. After all they could save themselves a ton of money dumping it and are still likely to get just as good or only slighty lower demos with another fresher drama since there are no other scripted series in the timeslot and yet CBS would still remain competitive for the night. Add it all up and it’s a no-brainer that Numb3rs should be orange, not green. In fact, I think they’ll try out Flashpoint in the timeslot before long.

]]> By: Pam http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133672 Pam Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:12:45 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133672 I guess Three Rivers is a goner , the premiere did terrible.I guess next season CBS will have space for new shows on Sunday. I guess Three Rivers is a goner , the premiere did terrible.I guess next season CBS will have space for new shows on Sunday.

]]> By: Dan http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133645 Dan Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:39:56 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133645 CSM - Cold Case is done after the season, Three Rivers is done in a couple of weeks. I think Numb3rs is relatively safe. CSM – Cold Case is done after the season, Three Rivers is done in a couple of weeks. I think Numb3rs is relatively safe.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133643 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:38:13 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133643 The only reason that there are any successfull AFTRA only shows this are because they're using people with name value, people who are duel members that chose not to support there union and screw over working actors who don't make over twenty-million dollars a year. I'm willing to bet that most of the AFTRA only shows that are on right now will be off the air by the end of this season. The few that are SAG will remain. The only reason that there are any successfull AFTRA only shows this are because they’re using people with name value, people who are duel members that chose not to support there union and screw over working actors who don’t make over twenty-million dollars a year. I’m willing to bet that most of the AFTRA only shows that are on right now will be off the air by the end of this season. The few that are SAG will remain.

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133631 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:23:38 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133631 Sharon, aggregate primetime ratings for broadcast networks have been down every year for the past 25, primarily because of shifts to advertising supported cable. The SAG/AFTRA spilt didn't cause that, based on that list above I don't think much of this year's loss, if any, can be blamed on it either. Sharon, aggregate primetime ratings for broadcast networks have been down every year for the past 25, primarily because of shifts to advertising supported cable. The SAG/AFTRA spilt didn’t cause that, based on that list above I don’t think much of this year’s loss, if any, can be blamed on it either.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133629 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:23:29 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133629 going down going down

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133628 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:22:41 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133628 Granted it's by a slim margarin but ratings for a number of those shows have continually been going though. Granted it’s by a slim margarin but ratings for a number of those shows have continually been going though.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133627 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:20:37 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133627 As I said some of the shows got SAG talent to work off of there AFTRA cards, which is why name actors or primarilly film actors like Courtney Cox, Juliana Margeluise (sp), among others are on the shows, and there names value is likley what's brought in viewers. Haven't overall ratings been down for networks this year as well? As I said some of the shows got SAG talent to work off of there AFTRA cards, which is why name actors or primarilly film actors like Courtney Cox, Juliana Margeluise (sp), among others are on the shows, and there names value is likley what’s brought in viewers. Haven’t overall ratings been down for networks this year as well?

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133622 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:18:05 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133622 Sharon, for new shows the SAG/AFTRA split on above/below average is effectively identical. Your theory of AFTRA = Fail doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Sharon, for new shows the SAG/AFTRA split on above/below average is effectively identical. Your theory of AFTRA = Fail doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133620 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:16:59 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133620 The older shows that have been on for several years and over time could've lost there audience for various reasons, not the new stuff that's failing out of box, which is mostly AFTRA only. I would expect to see the netoworks start employing more non-inion talent in the future to save money. I would also expect to see the quality diminish as well unless SAG and AFTRA can reverse there contracts when they negotiate again. The older shows that have been on for several years and over time could’ve lost there audience for various reasons, not the new stuff that’s failing out of box, which is mostly AFTRA only. I would expect to see the netoworks start employing more non-inion talent in the future to save money. I would also expect to see the quality diminish as well unless SAG and AFTRA can reverse there contracts when they negotiate again.

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133615 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:12:44 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133615 Look at it this way, here are just the freshman shows on the list, and there is no clear SAG/AFTRA trend between them: <strong>Above Average For Their Networks (7 AFTRA, 2 SAG)</strong> Cougar Town (NEW), AFTRA Flash Forward (NEW), AFTRA Modern Family (NEW), AFTRA Accidentally on Purpose (NEW), AFTRA The Good Wife (NEW), AFTRA NCIS: Los Angeles, (NEW) SAG Community, (NEW) AFTRA Glee (NEW), SAG The Vampire Diaries (NEW), AFTRA <strong>Below Average For Their Networks (8 AFTRA, 2 SAG)</strong> Eastwick (NEW), SAG The Forgotten (NEW), AFTRA Hank (NEW), AFTRA The Middle (NEW), SAG Three Rivers, (NEW) AFTRA Mercy, (NEW) AFTRA Trauma, (NEW)< AFTRA Brothers (NEW), AFTRA The Beautiful Life (NEW), AFTRA Melrose Place (NEW), AFTRA But you are correct that the preponderance of new shows are AFTRA. Look at it this way, here are just the freshman shows on the list, and there is no clear SAG/AFTRA trend between them:

Above Average For Their Networks (7 AFTRA, 2 SAG)
Cougar Town (NEW), AFTRA
Flash Forward (NEW), AFTRA
Modern Family (NEW), AFTRA
Accidentally on Purpose (NEW), AFTRA
The Good Wife (NEW), AFTRA
NCIS: Los Angeles, (NEW) SAG
Community, (NEW) AFTRA
Glee (NEW), SAG
The Vampire Diaries (NEW), AFTRA

Below Average For Their Networks (8 AFTRA, 2 SAG)
Eastwick (NEW), SAG
The Forgotten (NEW), AFTRA
Hank (NEW), AFTRA
The Middle (NEW), SAG
Three Rivers, (NEW) AFTRA
Mercy, (NEW) AFTRA
Trauma, (NEW)< AFTRA
Brothers (NEW), AFTRA
The Beautiful Life (NEW), AFTRA
Melrose Place (NEW), AFTRA

But you are correct that the preponderance of new shows are AFTRA.

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133612 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:09:37 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133612 Sharon, but if older shows tend to be SAG shows, that skews the list, since old shows (presumably SAG) that failed are *off* the list already. Sharon, but if older shows tend to be SAG shows, that skews the list, since old shows (presumably SAG) that failed are *off* the list already.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133610 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:08:44 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133610 There are more AFTRA only shows failing then succeeding on that list. There are more AFTRA only shows failing then succeeding on that list.

]]> By: Martha http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-3/#comment-133602 Martha Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:03:22 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133602 I was a huge Moonlight fan , but Three Rivers is one of the worst shows I've seen in years, and I have watched a lot of them. When Moonlight was canceled I felt devastated, but honestly I cannot care less if Three Rivers dies or survives. That show is soporific. I never believed that CBS really thought Moonlight was just about Alex , because if that would had been truth I am sure they would had found him a better show than this one.It is just terrible. I was a huge Moonlight fan , but Three Rivers is one of the worst shows I’ve seen in years, and I have watched a lot of them.
When Moonlight was canceled I felt devastated, but honestly I cannot care less if Three Rivers dies or survives. That show is soporific.
I never believed that CBS really thought Moonlight was just about Alex , because if that would had been truth I am sure they would had found him a better show than this one.It is just terrible.

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133571 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:35:55 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133571 Sharon, I don't think your cause and effect holds together (going by Nikki's list at least) I don't see any real SAG vs. AFTRA trend here other than perhaps the built in bias that old shows tend to do better since the failed older shows are already off the list: <strong>Above Average For Their Networks</strong> Brothers & Sisters, SAG Cougar Town (NEW), AFTRA Flash Forward (NEW), AFTRA Grey's Anatomy, SAG Modern Family (NEW), AFTRA Private Practice, SAG Accidentally on Purpose (NEW), AFTRA The Big Bang Theory, SAG Criminal Minds, SAG CSI, SAG CSI: Miami, SAG CSI: NY, SAG The Good Wife (NEW), AFTRA How I Met Your Mother, SAG The Mentalist, SAG NCIS, SAG NCIS: Los Angeles, (NEW) SAG Two and a Half Men, (NEW) SAG Community, (NEW) AFTRA The Office, SAG Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, SAG Heroes, SAG Bones, SAG Glee (NEW), SAG House, SAG 90210, AFTRA Gossip Girl, SAG One Tree Hill, SAG Smallville, SAG Supernatural, SAG The Vampire Diaries (NEW), AFTRA <strong>Below Average For Their Networks</strong> Castle, SAG Eastwick (NEW), SAG The Forgotten (NEW), AFTRA Hank (NEW), AFTRA The Middle (NEW), SAG New Adventures of Old Christine, SAG Gary Unmarried, AFTRA Cold Case, SAG Ghost Whisperer, SAG Medium, SAG Numb3rs, SAG Three Rivers, (NEW) AFTRA Law & Order, SAG Mercy, (NEW) AFTRA Parks and Recreation, AFTRA Trauma, (NEW)< AFTRA Brothers (NEW), AFTRA Dollhouse, SAG Fringe, SAG Lie to Me, SAG 'Til Death, AFTRA The Beautiful Life (NEW), AFTRA Melrose Place (NEW), AFTRA Sharon, I don’t think your cause and effect holds together (going by Nikki’s list at least)

I don’t see any real SAG vs. AFTRA trend here other than perhaps the built in bias that old shows tend to do better since the failed older shows are already off the list:

Above Average For Their Networks
Brothers & Sisters, SAG
Cougar Town (NEW), AFTRA
Flash Forward (NEW), AFTRA
Grey’s Anatomy, SAG
Modern Family (NEW), AFTRA
Private Practice, SAG
Accidentally on Purpose (NEW), AFTRA
The Big Bang Theory, SAG
Criminal Minds, SAG
CSI, SAG
CSI: Miami, SAG
CSI: NY, SAG
The Good Wife (NEW), AFTRA
How I Met Your Mother, SAG
The Mentalist, SAG
NCIS, SAG
NCIS: Los Angeles, (NEW) SAG
Two and a Half Men, (NEW) SAG
Community, (NEW) AFTRA
The Office, SAG
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, SAG
Heroes, SAG
Bones, SAG
Glee (NEW), SAG
House, SAG
90210, AFTRA
Gossip Girl, SAG
One Tree Hill, SAG
Smallville, SAG
Supernatural, SAG
The Vampire Diaries (NEW), AFTRA

Below Average For Their Networks
Castle, SAG
Eastwick (NEW), SAG
The Forgotten (NEW), AFTRA
Hank (NEW), AFTRA
The Middle (NEW), SAG
New Adventures of Old Christine, SAG
Gary Unmarried, AFTRA
Cold Case, SAG
Ghost Whisperer, SAG
Medium, SAG
Numb3rs, SAG
Three Rivers, (NEW) AFTRA
Law & Order, SAG
Mercy, (NEW) AFTRA
Parks and Recreation, AFTRA
Trauma, (NEW)< AFTRA
Brothers (NEW), AFTRA
Dollhouse, SAG
Fringe, SAG
Lie to Me, SAG
‘Til Death, AFTRA
The Beautiful Life (NEW), AFTRA
Melrose Place (NEW), AFTRA

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133549 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:19:24 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133549 R.G., "Such a rarity to see a CBS show in this decade to go down like that." Not really. I can only speak to the last 2 years, but what about Viva Laughlin and Ex-List. Both were gone by November as it is now assumed Three Rivers will be. R.G., “Such a rarity to see a CBS show in this decade to go down like that.”

Not really. I can only speak to the last 2 years, but what about Viva Laughlin and Ex-List. Both were gone by November as it is now assumed Three Rivers will be.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133548 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:18:22 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133548 AFTRA agreed to it first not SAG my appologies. A few SAG performers also worked off of there AFTRA cards because they didn't want to be out of work. Hence, Courtney Cox on Cougar town and Christian Slater on the Forgotten. AFTRA agreed to it first not SAG my appologies. A few SAG performers also worked off of there AFTRA cards because they didn’t want to be out of work. Hence, Courtney Cox on Cougar town and Christian Slater on the Forgotten.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133542 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:14:57 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133542 Thank you for sharing that Holly. Thank you for sharing that Holly.

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133540 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:13:52 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133540 Nope, not under the new rules of the SAG/AFTRA contract which allows producers to employ non-union talent if an "internet" or "on-line" production exceeds a certian level of cost, I beleive it's over 15,000 a minute, so say a two-hour T.V. movie costs 2.8 million to make then they can employ non-union "talent" and they can get away with it because the internet part refers to any film of television show that can also be seen on the net. Last year when SAG threatened to go on strike the netowrks began employing AFTRA only and non-union talent, they were able to use non-union performers because SAG agreed to it in there contract. And some of the shows that have been using this system are the new programs that are now tanking. Nope, not under the new rules of the SAG/AFTRA contract which allows producers to employ non-union talent if an “internet” or “on-line” production exceeds a certian level of cost, I beleive it’s over 15,000 a minute, so say a two-hour T.V. movie costs 2.8 million to make then they can employ non-union “talent” and they can get away with it because the internet part refers to any film of television show that can also be seen on the net. Last year when SAG threatened to go on strike the netowrks began employing AFTRA only and non-union talent, they were able to use non-union performers because SAG agreed to it in there contract. And some of the shows that have been using this system are the new programs that are now tanking.

]]> By: Holly http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133538 Holly Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:11:04 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133538 @Bill <i>Sharon, that’s a cause and effect I’ve never heard before. Is there an easy to find list of which shows fall in that category, so that I could do an actual comparison?</i> Your dear friend Nikki Finke had a list: http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/sag-vs-aftra-in-television-show-by-show/ Nearly all the new shows are AFTRA....I'll leave the guilds to argue about why. @Bill

Sharon, that’s a cause and effect I’ve never heard before. Is there an easy to find list of which shows fall in that category, so that I could do an actual comparison?

Your dear friend Nikki Finke had a list:

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/sag-vs-aftra-in-television-show-by-show/

Nearly all the new shows are AFTRA….I’ll leave the guilds to argue about why.

]]> By: Shaz http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133527 Shaz Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:59:54 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133527 Alfre Woodard and Alex O'Loughlin are SAG. Don't know about the rest of the cast. I've heard that reality shows can get away with hiring non-union, but is that legal for scripted dramas and comedies? Alfre Woodard and Alex O’Loughlin are SAG. Don’t know about the rest of the cast.

I’ve heard that reality shows can get away with hiring non-union, but is that legal for scripted dramas and comedies?

]]> By: CSM http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133515 CSM Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:54:01 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133515 Three Rivers and Cold Case are definitely CBS' weak spots. I think Numbers is in at least some danger simply since it is the weakest of their 3 Friday shows, guess it depends if CBS thinks they have something they can air there in place of it next season. Accidentally on Purpose is hanging in there. Even though it definitely is the weak link on Mondays, it is right behind How I met your Mother on the index, so it's not bleeding many of HIMYM's viewers. If it continues to drop in the next couple weeks though then it won't get a back 9 order. Three Rivers and Cold Case are definitely CBS’ weak spots. I think Numbers is in at least some danger simply since it is the weakest of their 3 Friday shows, guess it depends if CBS thinks they have something they can air there in place of it next season.

Accidentally on Purpose is hanging in there. Even though it definitely is the weak link on Mondays, it is right behind How I met your Mother on the index, so it’s not bleeding many of HIMYM’s viewers. If it continues to drop in the next couple weeks though then it won’t get a back 9 order.

]]> By: R.G http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133506 R.G Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:47:44 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133506 Such a rarity to see a CBS show in this decade to go down like that. Such a rarity to see a CBS show in this decade to go down like that.

]]> By: DAVID http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133502 DAVID Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:45:29 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133502 I wonder how it got on the air? I watched the show and saw nothing that was special about it no hook to make you want to watch the show. Unless it improves greatly in the next few weeks I say cancell it. the story line was just lacking! I wonder how it got on the air? I watched the show and saw nothing that was special about it no hook to make you want to watch the show.
Unless it improves greatly in the next few weeks I say cancell it.
the story line was just lacking!

]]> By: Bill Gorman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133497 Bill Gorman Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:43:48 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133497 Sharon, that's a cause and effect I've never heard before. Is there an easy to find list of which shows fall in that category, so that I could do an actual comparison? Sharon, that’s a cause and effect I’ve never heard before. Is there an easy to find list of which shows fall in that category, so that I could do an actual comparison?

]]> By: Sharon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133490 Sharon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:40:32 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133490 You see kids this is what happens when networks decide to use either AFTRA only, or non-union actors for television shows, they fail horrendously. You see kids this is what happens when networks decide to use either AFTRA only, or non-union actors for television shows, they fail horrendously.

]]> By: Shaz http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133445 Shaz Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:11:53 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133445 There's zero chance of that happening because Moonlight's ratings started out OK but continued to drop throughout its run. Swingtown and The Ex List sucked too but Flashpoint did better than Moonlight. Currently, CBS seems happy with Medium in Moonlight's old timeslot. If Moonlight couldn't increase its audience on Friday where expectations are low, it would likely do worse on another night with way more competition. Not to mention, Medium is produced by CBS, so it's an in-house (and cheaper) show to make than Moonlight, which was produced by Warner Bros. There’s zero chance of that happening because Moonlight’s ratings started out OK but continued to drop throughout its run.

Swingtown and The Ex List sucked too but Flashpoint did better than Moonlight. Currently, CBS seems happy with Medium in Moonlight’s old timeslot. If Moonlight couldn’t increase its audience on Friday where expectations are low, it would likely do worse on another night with way more competition. Not to mention, Medium is produced by CBS, so it’s an in-house (and cheaper) show to make than Moonlight, which was produced by Warner Bros.

]]> By: Jon http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133439 Jon Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:09:01 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133439 Moonlight is never coming back and after Jericho bombed, CBS is never going to bring back a show after fan campaigning, the show's been axed for over a year. Moonlight is never coming back and after Jericho bombed, CBS is never going to bring back a show after fan campaigning, the show’s been axed for over a year.

]]> By: elaine http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699/comment-page-2/#comment-133414 elaine Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:49:52 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/06/three-rivers-doa/29699#comment-133414 Wonder if CBS is smart enough to bring Moonlight back after Three Rivers bombs. I don't think Jason is doing anything right now. Come on CBS do the smart thing and bring our vampires back and get rid of the stuffed suits in the boardroom. Start with the CEO. I also went to CBS web page and sent them an email stating the same thought. Wonder if CBS is smart enough to bring Moonlight back after Three Rivers bombs. I don’t think Jason is doing anything right now. Come on CBS do the smart thing and bring our vampires back and get rid of the stuffed suits in the boardroom. Start with the CEO. I also went to CBS web page and sent them an email stating the same thought.

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