Comments on: Nielsen sets meeting with clients: but do the advertisers really want convergence measurement? http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:00:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Robert Seidman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-136113 Robert Seidman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:29:28 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-136113 Todd, none of the national ratings WE report are based on diaries. The national numbers commonly reported here and everywhere else are all people meters. My understanding is that outside of sweeps, diaries are only used for local measurement, and that's slowly being phased out in favor of local People Meters. Todd, none of the national ratings WE report are based on diaries. The national numbers commonly reported here and everywhere else are all people meters.

My understanding is that outside of sweeps, diaries are only used for local measurement, and that’s slowly being phased out in favor of local People Meters.

]]> By: Todd http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-136100 Todd Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:18:02 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-136100 I agree with Mikey. Programming is the spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine of advertising go down. Nielsen ratings are a funny business. Everyone in the industry knows that there's a huge standard deviation in the ratings yet everyone believes that since that error is the same for everyone it all equals out. It's unbelievable that in this day and age of incredible technology the majority of television ratings are compiled by people writing in a little paper diary. The ratings are so skewed toward certain demographics it's a joke. The only reason for this is the absolute monopoly that Nielsen has. Ratings can and should be compiled better. I agree with Mikey. Programming is the spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine of advertising go down.

Nielsen ratings are a funny business. Everyone in the industry knows that there’s a huge standard deviation in the ratings yet everyone believes that since that error is the same for everyone it all equals out.

It’s unbelievable that in this day and age of incredible technology the majority of television ratings are compiled by people writing in a little paper diary. The ratings are so skewed toward certain demographics it’s a joke. The only reason for this is the absolute monopoly that Nielsen has. Ratings can and should be compiled better.

]]> By: Robert Seidman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-136071 Robert Seidman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:45:26 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-136071 <i>Ratings exist to measure exposure to advertising, not exposure to programming.</i> I wish I had your gift for words, Mikey! I'll be borrowing that phrase often. It is a concept that is lost on many, and not just fans of TV shows. Ratings exist to measure exposure to advertising, not exposure to programming.

I wish I had your gift for words, Mikey! I’ll be borrowing that phrase often. It is a concept that is lost on many, and not just fans of TV shows.

]]> By: Mikey http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-136068 Mikey Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:35:50 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-136068 "if they are not the exact same ads as on TV, why does it matter?" It doesn't. I guarantee this will be one of the first objections raised at this meeting. Ratings exist to measure exposure to advertising, not exposure to programming. Any change that makes it harder to track exposure to advertising is a non-starter. Man, if I worked for Hulu, youtube, or any online video source I would fight like hell against these convergence ratings. As soon as both platforms are being scored on the same metrics the jig is up for online. They benefit from confusion over their metrics. Transparency can only hurt them. “if they are not the exact same ads as on TV, why does it matter?”

It doesn’t. I guarantee this will be one of the first objections raised at this meeting.

Ratings exist to measure exposure to advertising, not exposure to programming. Any change that makes it harder to track exposure to advertising is a non-starter.

Man, if I worked for Hulu, youtube, or any online video source I would fight like hell against these convergence ratings. As soon as both platforms are being scored on the same metrics the jig is up for online. They benefit from confusion over their metrics. Transparency can only hurt them.

]]> By: How Will Nielsen Navigate TV Everywhere? Find Out at NewTeeVee Live! http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135874 How Will Nielsen Navigate TV Everywhere? Find Out at NewTeeVee Live! Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:56:08 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135874 [...] our friend Robert Seidman over at TV by the Numbers writes, Nielsen has some real challenges ahead given how people are time-shifting and place-shifting their [...] [...] our friend Robert Seidman over at TV by the Numbers writes, Nielsen has some real challenges ahead given how people are time-shifting and place-shifting their [...]

]]> By: Robert Seidman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135870 Robert Seidman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:49:48 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135870 Dan, you're not wrong to find that odd. It was a mistake as a result of some cutting and pasting and the whole "called TV Everywhere" bit should have been removed rather than being attached to Nielsen. I've removed it. Dan, you’re not wrong to find that odd. It was a mistake as a result of some cutting and pasting and the whole “called TV Everywhere” bit should have been removed rather than being attached to Nielsen. I’ve removed it.

]]> By: Dan http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135735 Dan Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:43:09 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135735 Robert - I think the way you framed tv everywhere was a little odd; as if Nielsen had concocted it, which isn't the case and is confirmed in the quote. I think your right on the DVR issue, the only argument I have heard here is the carriage fee argument about revenue neutral programming or perhaps some kind of branding argument. Robert – I think the way you framed tv everywhere was a little odd; as if Nielsen had concocted it, which isn’t the case and is confirmed in the quote. I think your right on the DVR issue, the only argument I have heard here is the carriage fee argument about revenue neutral programming or perhaps some kind of branding argument.

]]> By: Clio http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135685 Clio Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:22:21 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135685 It's not just product placement, though that's part of it. Big advertisers have built entire models on the kinds of numbers you can get from Nielsen, and while it's fairly easy to convert print and newspaper and obviously radio to similar numbers it's always been kind of a nightmare to convert online to that same metric, or to put it into all those reach numbers that media people use. Anything that doesn't clearly contribute to those numbers—which the marketing people at the advertiser then put into their OWN models of magical prediction—is liable to be cut. Don't worry about the current level of commercialization, or how many people are skipping ads (the smarter TV buyers have been saying for a while that skipping ads started with the invention of the remote control and now we can just measure it—heck, The Apartment shows CC Baxter skipping ads and that was in 1960) but how moving forward this alternative viewing can be measured in the same way as traditional television, and therefore sold in traditional buys, and accounted for in traditional ways. Basically, even though the media landscape is changing, advertisers have almost 50 years of research and modeling based on those numbers, and with every MBA addicted to modeling even more than before, and modeling giving folks a justification for their budgets that will withstand the quarterly results requirements, no one wants to give up those solid, comforting numbers that Nielsen supplies. It’s not just product placement, though that’s part of it. Big advertisers have built entire models on the kinds of numbers you can get from Nielsen, and while it’s fairly easy to convert print and newspaper and obviously radio to similar numbers it’s always been kind of a nightmare to convert online to that same metric, or to put it into all those reach numbers that media people use. Anything that doesn’t clearly contribute to those numbers—which the marketing people at the advertiser then put into their OWN models of magical prediction—is liable to be cut. Don’t worry about the current level of commercialization, or how many people are skipping ads (the smarter TV buyers have been saying for a while that skipping ads started with the invention of the remote control and now we can just measure it—heck, The Apartment shows CC Baxter skipping ads and that was in 1960) but how moving forward this alternative viewing can be measured in the same way as traditional television, and therefore sold in traditional buys, and accounted for in traditional ways.

Basically, even though the media landscape is changing, advertisers have almost 50 years of research and modeling based on those numbers, and with every MBA addicted to modeling even more than before, and modeling giving folks a justification for their budgets that will withstand the quarterly results requirements, no one wants to give up those solid, comforting numbers that Nielsen supplies.

]]> By: lainey http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135620 lainey Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:42:45 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135620 The more that the consumer can control what, when, and how they watch something the less control the advertiser has. They might could put the banner across the bottom, but a little monkeying with the tv picture controls can adjust the ratio and push it down, at least on some tvs. I think that the stations already had to adjust all the stuff they put on the screen because viewers found it too distracting and annoying, and if the viewers won't watch the show because its annoying they certainly aren't going to see the commercial. I really don't have much objection, personally, to product placement, if it remains subtle, like how tv shows used to all use Fords whenever a car was in the scenes if Ford sponsored the show. The more that the consumer can control what, when, and how they watch something the less control the advertiser has. They might could put the banner across the bottom, but a little monkeying with the tv picture controls can adjust the ratio and push it down, at least on some tvs. I think that the stations already had to adjust all the stuff they put on the screen because viewers found it too distracting and annoying, and if the viewers won’t watch the show because its annoying they certainly aren’t going to see the commercial. I really don’t have much objection, personally, to product placement, if it remains subtle, like how tv shows used to all use Fords whenever a car was in the scenes if Ford sponsored the show.

]]> By: Robert Seidman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135616 Robert Seidman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:27:05 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135616 I agree product placement will be a growing revenue source, but for now, it's a drop in the bucket compared to commercial spot advertising revenue and I doubt seriously that lack of convergence measurement is slowing down adoption of product placement. I can't imagine advertisers of traditional spots would care about measuring all the ways "to watch TV without commercials", or be bent out of shape because they're not currently measured. I agree product placement will be a growing revenue source, but for now, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to commercial spot advertising revenue and I doubt seriously that lack of convergence measurement is slowing down adoption of product placement.

I can’t imagine advertisers of traditional spots would care about measuring all the ways “to watch TV without commercials”, or be bent out of shape because they’re not currently measured.

]]> By: Allison http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135610 Allison Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:07:16 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135610 I totally agree with JHazelwood. There are so many ways to watch TV without commercials - Nielsen ratings just aren't indicative of how many viewers watch traditional ad spots anymore. I think in-show product placement is the safest bet if advertisers want their product to actually be seen, and in that case, convergent numbers are key. I totally agree with JHazelwood. There are so many ways to watch TV without commercials – Nielsen ratings just aren’t indicative of how many viewers watch traditional ad spots anymore. I think in-show product placement is the safest bet if advertisers want their product to actually be seen, and in that case, convergent numbers are key.

]]> By: Boris http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135552 Boris Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:41:13 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135552 Jack says: "How do the advertisers know that I am not closing my eyes and plugging up my ears every time one of their commercials shows while I am watching live?" Do you? Jack says:

“How do the advertisers know that I am not closing my eyes and plugging up my ears every time one of their commercials shows while I am watching live?”

Do you?

]]> By: Jack http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135545 Jack Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:29:36 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135545 How do the advertisers know that I am not closing my eyes and plugging up my ears every time one of their commercials shows while I am watching live? How do the advertisers know that I am not closing my eyes and plugging up my ears every time one of their commercials shows while I am watching live?

]]> By: Boris http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135508 Boris Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:40:11 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135508 "The online streaming sites have far, far fewer commercial spots than on television." I would note that the nets have not been paying much attention to the usability of their online platforms--MLBAM is probably the poster child for sudden loss of functionality, but I've have very little success with Hulu and friends for the past few months. Sure, OS X 10.3.9 probably isn't "supported," but if Megavideo is the only place with a functional streaming product, there's a problem of core competence. “The online streaming sites have far, far fewer commercial spots than on television.”

I would note that the nets have not been paying much attention to the usability of their online platforms–MLBAM is probably the poster child for sudden loss of functionality, but I’ve have very little success with Hulu and friends for the past few months. Sure, OS X 10.3.9 probably isn’t “supported,” but if Megavideo is the only place with a functional streaming product, there’s a problem of core competence.

]]> By: JHazelwood http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135442 JHazelwood Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:39:59 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135442 I think convergence matters if you start thinking about product placement costs to companies. Also, I think that ads will someday air during the show as well on breaks. You could eventually see the tag running at the bottom of the screen while the show plays. Convergence could measure that because that ad would show on any reshowing of the actual show, while the breaks can be sold by the online streamers. People will bitch I'm sure, but if it means keeping good shows on I'll take it. People don't like the beginning ads at the movie theater, but they help keep the theater running. I think convergence matters if you start thinking about product placement costs to companies. Also, I think that ads will someday air during the show as well on breaks. You could eventually see the tag running at the bottom of the screen while the show plays. Convergence could measure that because that ad would show on any reshowing of the actual show, while the breaks can be sold by the online streamers. People will bitch I’m sure, but if it means keeping good shows on I’ll take it. People don’t like the beginning ads at the movie theater, but they help keep the theater running.

]]> By: Julia http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135377 Julia Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:40:04 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135377 Maybe the networks are actually looking to make cross-media buys the norm. That's the only explanation I can think of. If they dump the in-house ads and local spots, they cut out some of the ads, though not nearly as much as is currently cut out. Maybe the networks are actually looking to make cross-media buys the norm. That’s the only explanation I can think of. If they dump the in-house ads and local spots, they cut out some of the ads, though not nearly as much as is currently cut out.

]]> By: Robert Seidman http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135365 Robert Seidman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:31:53 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135365 I was updating the post as you were commenting -- one of the updates was: And even if they add more ads, if they are not the exact same ads as on TV, why does it matter? I was updating the post as you were commenting — one of the updates was:

And even if they add more ads, if they are not the exact same ads as on TV, why does it matter?

]]> By: Julia http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/10/08/nielsen-sets-meeting-with-clients-but-do-the-advertisers-really-want-convergence-measurement/30009/comment-page-1/#comment-135361 Julia Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:28:00 +0000 http://tvbythenumbers.com/?p=30009#comment-135361 I'm not even sure how C3 would work if it included online viewing. Even if there were the same number of ads, those on Hulu don't match those on TV. I’m not even sure how C3 would work if it included online viewing. Even if there were the same number of ads, those on Hulu don’t match those on TV.

]]>