Then, Whedon needs to call me. I have an idea for a show with Summer Glau as a lead along with three others AND some other TSCC alumni that will break all the rules. Unfortunately, he needs to let me be the showrunner in terms of concept. After all, if they let that idiot Friedman be showrunner on TSCC, with no broadcast production experience and no sci-fi cred, they can do the same for me.

Thanks for the link. I am glad to see Fox continuing to state in it’s press releases that DH will air through November’s Sweeps. I don’t think that anything has changed though. Fox most likely wants the show to succeed and will keep to that schedule if it stays within an acceptable range. If it doesn’t, then I have little doubt that they will air it at a later time and replace it with something else during Sweeps.

.Chris, I think fans are choosing to believe that they will get to see all the episodes because the head of FOX scheduling said they are airing all the episodes. If you choose not to believe him, that’s cool.<

No offense taken, and none meant, but please re-read what I have said. I have not contended the show will never air. In fact, if you look repeatedly at what I've said, I am telling you it is NOT guaranteed the timespot it is in, or that it will run the way you see it now. After all, Fox committed to "Sit Down, Shut Up" as I pointed out as a reference, and will air every single committed episode.. except it's airing at midnight on Saturdays.

If Dollhouse ratings fall, every episode will still air. It just won't air in sweeps week and it'll get burned off either quickly or pulled to be put back in later.

I -like- Dollhouse. I have rooted for the show. But I am not oblivious to what goes on. The show had a need to get an uptick in the ratings for a hold, and it got it.

But if the ratings fall below it's low level, do you think there is any chance it'd run during sweeps? I can guarantee you NO.

My advice to Dollhouse fans is the same now as it was before: if you want to see the show air in any sort of sense that it stays put on the schedule or at least aired in a way that it's not scattered out to burn off, you still need to tune in.

Because they will commit to airing every episode. That doesn't mean it stays on the schedule NOW instead of being added back in or burned off later.

Take that to the bank.

I suspect (if the show had gone on for longer) that the intention was to run parallel story lines during the main story arc and the future story arc so that would converge nicely by the last of the Epitaph episodes. Subsequent stories could move forward from there.

It is possible that such convergence will happen by the end of this season (either intentionally or not). My hesitation on whether the finale would be 2 or 3, but whether they might decide to air an intermediary future episode before season’s end.

For some reason, 3 episodes sounds like a good number of episodes to reach convergence. It provides a classic play-like quality to it.

———————–

Not that I think it will go this way, but one mind-trip they could pull using the Epitaph terminology is to provide an alternate future, using the Epitaph series as a type of “what if” scenarios. This allows the “one” to represent version one as opposed to part one.

———————–

All the above has been speculation about why that 13th episode was called Epitaph One as you might imagine.

Revisiting the Epitaph One future would be cool–always nice to see Felicia Day. And she’s a character I can, y’know, actually *like*. Maybe the show should leap forward into the future, make the Epitaph world the ongoing focus, and just show how we got there in occasional flasbacks. I’d trade most of the current cast and setup for Felicia and non-Doll Victor and Sierra fighting in the future.

Firefly sold very very well for FOX. Serenity was a box office flop, but has shown massive legs on video/dvd. There was a reason it was one of Universals first HD releases and why they’ve milked it with multiple editions. Dr. Horrible was cute but hardly a major financial success. To date Dollhouse is his least impressive show and definitely most deserving of a cancelation…

While I know of a few prolific and well-rated television show creators — Aaron Spelling, Dick Wolf, David E. Kelley, and Chuck Barris. Few of their shows actually interest me. We’ll have to see how Ryan Murphy does…

(You know though, if I were Kevin Reilly, I’d be tempted to renew Dollhouse even with a 0.5, just to keep the wars going on. Also I’d say something outrageous about T:SCC, along the lines of “Yeah, we though about bringing it back, but we prefer Dollhouse”, or “It was an interesting show, but let’s be honest, ultimately it went to crap in the second season”, or “Well, personally, I liked Riley, and I never did like the misogynist comments about her weight from jerks who claimed to be fans of the show.” And I’d bring back Futurama. Because I like Futurama.)

I Dr. H in its entirety, after it’s initial airing. However, as I understood it, it had two webisodes. I’m just curious where you got a trend of “creative and ratings decline for much of its run.” I wasn’t even aware they had ratings for Dr. H. I’m also not sure what the “spinoff success” is. Maybe we’re thinking of a different web program?

By your universe logic, does that make Rodenberry a one-hit wonder? JJ Abrams a two-hit television wonder (Felicity + the Alias/Lost/Fringe-verse)?

It’s a dead show walking. Has been for a while, and FOX just all but confirmed it. Whedon is writing the 13th ep as a finale.

If it got a back 9 and then got canceled, that would still be defeat for the Whedonites. You keep lowering your standards for victory, and Whedon keeps effortlessly limboing under them.

He can always go back to comics.

>So if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s still not a duck? DVR numbers? Doesn’t mean anything. Airing annoucement? Doesn’t mean anything. Promos & offical Press release from Fox? Doesn’t mean anything. Why doesn’t mean anything? Because it goes against the numbers! Numbers, damn it! They aren’t influenced by other factors; they don’t LIE! Cue “It’s a ratings site; not a fansite, duh-head.”<

(1) DVR numbers generally have never meant anything. I mean, it's a great idea, but for the most part, they don't. That may change, but there is a lot of debate on what they mean to advertisers. Advertisers argue they mean very little because people just zip through the commercials.

(2) Promos and press releases have never meant anything. If they did, we'd be talking about how great Bionic Woman is, touting how Southland is the next new "IT" drama for NBC, etc. Promos & press releases are done for spin and image control, and always have been. Always will be. They can be used to announce pickups (example: Commitment to 2 more seasons of Bones, contract inked!) or just to say "we like X".

(3) The only thing that ever means anything is the value to the network and affiliates.

And sometimes that goes beyond numbers. Look at Leno. His numbers have been not bad this year, and we can discuss that on this site. But the fact is, the damage to "The Tonight Show" is significant from him leaving, and network affiliates have a significant drop in their nightly news ratings. Those things hurt affiliate opportunities for revenue.

Dollhouse fans who feel "guaranteed" the show will air all of it's eps in the current spot through sweeps need to rethink. If the ratings go up, that certainly is possible. But the show in not invincible. What I said before still applies: if this slides below it's previous lows, the hook can come right out. Because there are other programming opportunities in it's spot.

Angel is a Buffyverse show–it’s just an extension of BTVS. And it barely lasted 5 seasons, and was never a dominant show, even on the WB.

Firefly’s DVD sales are irrelevant to what I was talking about–and not very impressive at all. It’s no True Blood, that’s for damn sure. 20th barely made their money back on it. Universal proved the franchise was a flop in any medium, by making Serenity.

Whedon had one modest weblet hit, that was in creative and ratings decline for much of its run. He had one minor spinoff success of that hit, which counts only as an extension of it. Firefly was a flop. Serenity was a flop. Dollhouse is a flop.

One. Hit. Wonder.

Eat it, Browncoats.

As a side note, they do watch the Simpsons outside of the US. I lived in France for a few months, and it definitely came on — although sometimes they changed the place names. I know this is a TV-based site, but the Triplettes de Belleville did well in France (and the director, who specializes in animation is well regarded).

And of course, one only need mention Japan, to note that animated television is watched by adults outside of the US.

Certainly, its at the viewer’s discretion to watch what they want to watch. What I think is a fundamental strength and weakness of animation is that it tends to be less bound by things such as cost and physical laws. This can either lead to rather innovative story writing, if used correctly, or rather lazy story writing. The rest is up to the writers (and directors).

Angel had five seasons (I rate that as being successful), Firefly is very successful on DVD and Dr. Horrible won an Emmy. So… nope.

Looks like Dollhouse ends with 26 episodes.

That’s 41 hours of low-rated Non-Buffyverse television from Joss Whedon.

Can you say “One Hit Wonder”?

I thought that you could.

No, seriously this show should be dead. I’m just not used to good news.

Fox airing 24 on Thursdays would be interesting as the show is on it’s last couple seasons anyway and it will pull good demos regardless, and this would allow Lie To Me to continue to grow on House’s lead-in.

US foreign policy and US tastes in TV viewing are different subjects, kind of like how quantum physics and what I had for breakfast today are different subjects. I was obviously talking about television, not politics. I don’t care what someone from, say, England thinks about the fact that I watch the Simpsons. I *obviously* wasn’t referring to US foreign policy and I really don’t see the need to bring up “thousands of dead Americans” in this thread.

But that doesn’t mean in the spot or timing people associate with it, and it means nothing to “it’ll stay on right now”

The commitment to “Sit Down, Shut Up” was upheld.. except the show was moved to midnights on Saturday.

Now, I don’t think Dollhouse is moving into that slot, but let’s be realistic, on this site the talk is not about “will all the episodes air” but is more along: will this show continue beyond this season? And, “will it keep it’s current spot?”

Pre-listings in trades and online (like TV Guide, etc.) They are sent weeks in advance and don’t tell you anything about whether or not a program will air at that time. Anything from a presidential press conference to a cancellation can bump something. You can find that all sources had the synopsis and ad sheet from NBC for Southland… and it never aired. So, don’t take that as confirmation of much.

Dollhouse ratings went up, but up straight to the minimum bar. That should say about all that needs to be said.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/10/fox-we-will-air-all-13-dollhouse-episodes.html

Not wishing to get too off subject but it’s that kind of thinking that leads to thousands of dead Americans and non-Americans in places like Iraq.

“Dollhouse” is done for, no doubt about that. I agree the press release is quite telling.

“Fringe” will probably be sent to Fridays to die. No official word about that, I know, but most people here seem to think so.

“Lie to Me” may or may not get a third season, but right now it doesn’t look likely.

Does that about cover it?
If so……wow, I guess I’ll take a break from TV in general. I can accept “Dollhouse” ending, but “Fringe”? No way. How could they do this to this awesome show? Moving it to Thursdays and then (probably) kill it off via a Friday timeslot. It did so well for FOX last season.

There are pleny of people out there who think science fiction is for children as well, Leo, and would laugh you out of the room if you told them you liked Dollhouse, or even worse, Buffy. If you want to go around measuring intelligence by people’s TV watching habits, I have a bridge I want to sell you. As for what people outside the USA think of the USA–honestly, *no one* in the USA cares, including me.

Hayao Miyazaki
Brad Bird (see Pixar)
Chuck Jones
Nick Park
Amalloc / Sambakza

But I agree, Seth MacFarlane does not deserve to be on this list – but Nielsen’s list is an entirely different one than mine

FOX might move it to Fridays if the show gets a third season.

“Lie To Me is moving to Friday’s mid season and then it’ll probably be axed… unless its cheap and Fox are still in love with it or still holding the ‘stability on Friday’ line. It should be taking off out of House but for whatever reason it isn’t.”

Again, whence the hortatory lingo?