In her review of the premiere of ABC’s V, Chicago Tribune TV critic Maureen Ryan made references to similar genre shows that had debuted this fall, including Stargate Universe. Her comments weren’t exactly flattering which led SGU executive producer Brad Wright to leave a comment on her blog, where among other things he said:
[…] fortunately there are enough viewers and reviewers who think SGU is neither boring, poorly plotted, or sexist to keep us on the air long after "V" is just a letter in the alphabet again."
Talk about putting the V in ratings enVy! Wright might be right that V will go back to just being a letter in the alphabet, but to make that comment after the stellar ratings V pulled in its premiere still is a bit surprising to me. Mo felt compelled to respond to Brad’s comment.
Mo notes that many people who were eagerly anticipating SGU have given up on it. For now, that describes me perfectly. I’ve given up as well, but if I hear it’s turned a corner, I will definitely check it out again. I watched every episode of SG1 and SGA ever made and I wanted to like SGU, but didn’t. For me, it’s like they’ve used none of what I loved about Stargate: SG1 and used many of the things I didn’t love about the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica.
People who have been following Stargate Universe closely will want to read Mo’s article. There’s just too much in the article you’ll want to read to post it all here. So go read it. But Mo struck a chord with this nugget:
If there's anything I have a problem with, it's an idea promulgated by some of the show's Defenders -- that people who don't like "Stargate Universe" just don't get it. I am stunned some of the condescending attitudes I've seen. It's frankly laughable to me, this idea that people who have issues with "SGU" just aren't smart enough to appreciate qualities such as complexity and ambiguity.
I and many other viewers get what the show is going for. We're not failing to understand its intentions. We think "SGU" is, in many key respects, falling short of its own goals.
Amen! I added the emphasis above because we see that theme play out so much on our site that “people just aren’t smart enough to understand” made the “Fan Excuse Bingo Cards”
I think it was unnecessary to drag “V” on that discussion.
I’m not really into sci-fi so I’m glad that Maureen Ryan, who is a sci-fi fan, pointed out the elitism of the some sci-fi fans.
I think V is rather irrelevent to this arguement between the Stargate show runners and their critics. From what I’ve seen, the show runners behind the Stargate shows have had an antagonistic relationship and attitude towards other scifi shows that make the old war on Babylon 5 by the Star Trek show runners seem tame. I didn’t give SGU a chance, mostly because I stopped giving these misogynistic writers chances back in the middle of Stargate Atlantis. I know a great deal of other scifi fans, particularly female ones, who have done the same.
It is my perception that they don’t think they are sexist because they generally don’t think anyone criticizing them could ever have a valid point. Their attitude towards the lesbian community during recent controversy only underscores this. Instead of taking a step back and trying to understand the problem, the show runners behind SGU attacked the people they had offended as over sensative and histerical. When fans complained about the firing of a well liked actress from SGA, they weren’t even addressed. When concerns were raised over the behavior of a male character that could be seen as stalking… they were mocked.
Well I love Stargate Universe and couldn’t care less about V. I liked Stargate SG-1 and didn’t like Stargate Atlantis so I’m glad with the direction they’ve taken for Stargate Universe.
I also don’t think that you can garner much from any series initial ratings. All it means is that due to advertising or other things that people were interested to tune in – not that they liked what they saw. The real key is whether they keep tuning in. Flash Forward premiered well and is steadily going down in the ratings. There are so many other channels, shows, DVDs, etc that any show’s producers can’t just assume that if the viewers initially like a show (example Heroes which now gets bad ratings compared to what they used to get) that they’ll put up with watching anything that the show throws out.
I’m sure that the execs at ABC are happy with the ratings from V’s premiere episode. Time will tell if viewers will continue to tune in.
In today’s market with all of the other choices that viewers have it’s hard to get back viewers to tune back in who have tuned out of a show in my opinion. The shows need to do all they can to keep the viewers that they have and to try and attract new viewers.
I think arguments between sci-fi fans about SF shows is self-defeating. There aren’t enough of us to go around as it it. Why must it come down to degrading one show or its fans to uplift another?
Actually, in this day and age, there are quite a number of scifi shows to choose from. People who like scifi really don’t need to act in some group solidarity formed in a time when scifi on television was rare.
This isn’t about scifi fans attacking the fans of another show. This is about a professional in the industry picking a fight with a television critic in public and dragging an unrelated show into that fight.
Good on Mo!
Watching Brad Wright continue to be a complete jerk makes me glad a chose not to watch SGU.
It’s kind of like watching <a href=http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA458094.htmlAnne Rice go nuts on Amazon a few years back, responding scathingly to critics of her books that they just didn’t get her art and all that noise.
Joe Mallozzi’s stupid rant last week and now Brad Wright’s post with the jab at V are hopefully not a start to more of the crew defending the show. There’s tons of criticism out there which usually means there’s a good reason for the criticism, and responding to it really doesn’t help.
I feel like the writers tried to do too much with SGU. They tried to make a dark show much different than the other Stargates with more complex themes and characters, but so far, it isn’t working. I think if they had just stuck to the Stargate format of heroes and timely escapes, there would be a more positive response. The writers gambled on a much different kind of show and they’ll have to live with that.
Hm, but do they care? They’ve shot what there is to shoot for season 1 – writers are steaming ahead into season 2 (being creative *cough*) – when can they get into syndication? After season 3? Perhaps that’s the only goal.
And Robert you can’t leave now! I just missed the latest zizzling episode where young hot chick transfers back to earth to go clubbing, get drunk, and moan about her lousy ex-boyfriend whilst the ships intrepid commander Young uses the stones of magic to transfer back to another mans body on earth, then go to his wife and have sex with her – in said other mans body. You never saw that on Dallas! *g*
@Kermonk
You’re right, they don’t care, and that’s blindingly obvious. And you know, that’s fine. There will always be critics, some valid, some not valid, and I get that they can’t listen to every single thing every person with an internet connection says. It would be impossible, and, in the end, wouldn’t help anything.
But when there are a few select criticisms that are repeated over and over again, in fact, across multiple shows of the franchise, maybe the better response would be to step back and acknowledge that maybe there IS a problem rather than snapping back at the fans as delusional or just “not getting it”.
It broke my heart not to follow the Stargate franchise into its new incarnation, because I so loved SG1 and SGA, despite their flaws. However, Mr. Wright has made sure with his repeated belittling comments that I don’t feel that way anymore.
Even Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson!) who had a cameo in the pilot and is appearing in some of this season’s later episodes seemed hard-pressed to find anything nice to say outside of speaking well of the cinematography and the actors:
http://girlmeetslightsaber.blogspot.com/2009/10/michael-shanks-talks-sgu-santuary-and.html
I read Mallozzi’s “rant” and I have to agree with him to a certain extent. Some of the fan comments have been extreme and downright ugly. However, there are problems with this series. I like SGU, but it has problems. Not the least of which is it’s depiction of women. Even with great female characters like Samantha Carter and Vala, the franchise has done a bad job of developing its female characters. One need only look at how the character of Dr. Weir was unceremoniously dropped and Teyla was never fully developed.
The recent episodes that featured rather gratuitous scenes of female anatomy were sexist no matter how Mallozzi and company want to justify it. Moreover, the female characters in general are utterly wasted. They have an exceptional actress like Ming-Na in their cast but more often than not she’s just pushed into the background. She could die on the next episode and it would mean nothing. That’s just bad writing.
Perhaps Wright and his team should stop trying to make excuses for their bad decision and get back to writing fun and exciting stories. Just because you’re making a darker, grittier Stargate doesn’t mean it can’t also be fun and exciting.
Wow, Robert, I hadn’t read that article! He really didn’t have much to say about it, did he? That’s kind of hilarious. Thanks for the link!
@Jimmy:
You’re absolutely right about Mallozzi’s condemnation of personal attacks against the actors. That is uncalled for and inappropriate, and if he had left it at that, I wouldn’t have thought another thing about it.
Sadly, he doesn’t leave it at that and he goes on (if I remember correctly) to once again essentially tell the disgruntled fans that they just don’t get it.
Most of the critical reviews I’ve read DO get it though, they just don’t LIKE it. Which is still a matter of personal opinion of course, but if that many reviewers are saying the same things, I’d think at some point, the producers of this show need to reevaluate what about their message (if they are indeed not trying to be juvenile and sexist) is not getting across.
@longtimegone
I think you missed Kermonk’s main point. It you read the Twitter/Facebook pages of the cast members you’ll see the show wrapped Season 1 already. As in every episode’s been filmed already so it’s beyond their capability to take criticism into account.
Don’t get me wrong, the producers do seem to have an unhealthy “self-love” thing going on. But they couldn’t change now even if they wanted to which is why they’re probably so vehement in defending the show as-is
@Tom
No, I got his point. I wasn’t actually arguing with his post so much as expanding on the idea that the producers don’t care. Sorry if that was unclear.
I know they can’t do anything about S1, but I just can’t help but think a better response to all this might be to lay low till the season is finished and then maybe acknowledge there were things they could have done better and work to resolve those issues if the show is picked up for a second season. I think I probably expect too much from the Stargate producers though, based on their history of reaction to fan criticism.
Well said Mo I agree with you 100 % and the comments that Brad left on your blog just confirms to me what kind of person he is that is him and JM. He just can’t stand the truth from a critic that isn’t gushing about his new show the truth hurts, he wouldn’t listen to the fans and look where that has got him.
I think I will start watching V. I have given up on SGU so maybe V will interest me only time will tell.
I like SGU and V..
@longtimegone
You are right, they do seem very arrogant about what they are doing – “we are right, you are wrong now buzz off” – but then they don’t seem to want those of us who have been with the show for years – now they are after new and fresh blood. Oh well.
Also, apparently those supposed ‘attacks’ were people posting messages to his blog which he didn’t approve? So the rest of us haven’t seen them…hm..
Anyway, right now they are spinning for season 2, ie, the writers are sitting together and coming up with ideas for new episodes – so if the public where to affect something, now would seem to be the time to be vocal.
Which presupposes of course that they are open to change.
Well, I liked SG1, SGA, and I really like SGU. I’m not sure yet, but I think it could be my favorite Stargate. V is good to, it even pushed me to buy all the old series because I was a fan when I was a kid.
Anyway, critics, I don’t even see why the producer of Stargate took the time to respond to it… Nobody cares about critics.
@Kermonk
While I have no doubt that there are crazy fans out there (like the ones that camped out in their car in front of Joe Flanigan’s house during Comic Con a few years ago), but I to am suspicious that these supposed attacks are vastly inflated so that Molazzi can react from a position of the moral high ground.