Better be an Epitaph Two!!!

People see that as bias, I see it as commonsense. There’s no discussion of House’s ratings week after week because there’s nothing to discuss – they’re high, and even if they dropped 30%, there’s no danger of Fox canceling it.

December 4 —-> Summer Glau Hit episodes
December 11 —-> Something Abou Rossum and Alpha as i heard
December 18 —-> Attic Thing ,

So i think those three events might (miracles really happens) grap some audience , how will FOX react ?

But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.

Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.

The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.

So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.

If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.

Fucking frustrating, right?

The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 – arguably the best episode of the entire series – won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone!

But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.

Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.

The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.

So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.

If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.

Fucking frustrating, right?

So I haven’t been around much since the news broke that Dollhouse was being cancelled. No, I wasn’t curled into a weeping mess or playing with my BtVS action figures to dull the pain & re-live the good ol days; it was something much simpler. I was reading.

And there was a lot to read.

Articles by professional TV critics, bloggers by the dozens, comments by the thousand. Literally. Just between AICN, Whedonesque & Tvbythenumbers, there was around 1500 posts. I’m not even going to discuss twitter other than the fact that it takes 5000 tweets to get something trending & the cancellation news had the dollhouse hashtag rising throughout the day. They scaled the gauntlet from anger, resignation, vengeful, funny & thoughtful. Me? I was frustrated.

I first felt the tugs of frustration before the series even began production. Yes, Whedon & crew had just come off of Dr.Horrible, which turned out to be a financial & critical success no matter your opinion on it’s quality, but the wave of over hype & excitement had me a bit wary. I think a lot of people felt that way but, as the machine churns on, you get caught up in it; the speculation, the anticipation. Fox had given it a prime spot on Tuesday! New format 90 seconds commercial only! Yay!

Then someone wasn’t paying attention when Joss pitched the show as a film noir-ish look at defining identity. Too depressing. Too dark. Too confusing a setting. Too frustrating. It gets delayed, then shoved to Friday Night Death Slot. Most everyone saw the writing on the wall then. But wait! They are pairing it with T:SCC and they are going to promote it as a sci-fi block! Yay!

Then the ratings come out for the first few episodes. T:SCC is beating Dollhouse in overall viewers but Dollhouse is beating T:SCC in the demo, which stayed that way until T:SCC’s cancellation. The trademark dialogue is lacking but not non-existent. Overall, the pathos for the subject matter is not there. Ballard is struggling but he comes off as such a dumbass you wonder how he passed his FBI entrance exam. The dolls are just sort of there. There is no reflection on the results; not by the dolls themselves because they can’t, not by the people that hire them because they are there, then gone and not by the people inside the Dollhouse because they are there to serve, not ponder. Most of the audience finds this unrelatable. I, who have been at the whims of a few directors & producers & overall goose steppers, do not. I have frequently been on the giving & receiving end of, “It’s not personal; it’s just business” tag line. But episode 6 is coming up, penned & directed by Whedon. Reilly says that they are going to back off on the notes & “let Joss be Joss”. Dancing in the fandom. Finally!

After ‘Man on the Street’ , which I thought was one of the tightest Joss scripts ever, Dollhouse became progressively better but still inconsistent. Mo Ryan of the SanFran Chronicle recently said that she prefers a show that will have a few C episodes mixed in with outstanding A episodes rather than a show that will constant deliver B’s. I would too. But it’s frustrating to watch.

So I haven’t been around much since the news broke that Dollhouse was being cancelled. No, I wasn’t curled into a weeping mess or playing with my BtVS action figures to dull the pain & re-live the good ol days; it was something much simpler. I was reading.

And there was a lot to read.

Articles by professional TV critics, bloggers by the dozens, comments by the thousand. Literally. Just between AICN, Whedonesque & Tvbythenumbers, there was around 1500 posts. I’m not even going to discuss twitter other than the fact that it takes 5000 tweets to get something trending & the cancellation news had the dollhouse hashtag rising throughout the day. They scaled the gauntlet from anger, resignation, vengeful, funny & thoughtful. Me? I was frustrated.

I first felt the tugs of frustration before the series even began production. Yes, Whedon & crew had just come off of Dr.Horrible, which turned out to be a financial & critical success no matter your opinion on it’s quality, but the wave of over hype & excitement had me a bit wary. I think a lot of people felt that way but, as the machine churns on, you get caught up in it; the speculation, the anticipation. Fox had given it a prime spot on Tuesday! New format 90 seconds commercial only! Yay!

Then someone wasn’t paying attention when Joss pitched the show as a film noir-ish look at defining identity. Too depressing. Too dark. Too confusing a setting. Too frustrating. It gets delayed, then shoved to Friday Night Death Slot. Most everyone saw the writing on the wall then. But wait! They are pairing it with T:SCC and they are going to promote it as a sci-fi block! Yay!

Then the ratings come out for the first few episodes. T:SCC is beating Dollhouse in overall viewers but Dollhouse is beating T:SCC in the demo, which stayed that way until T:SCC’s cancellation. The trademark dialogue is lacking but not non-existent. Overall, the pathos for the subject matter is not there. Ballard is struggling but he comes off as such a dumbass you wonder how he passed his FBI entrance exam. The dolls are just sort of there. There is no reflection on the results; not by the dolls themselves because they can’t, not by the people that hire them because they are there, then gone and not by the people inside the Dollhouse because they are there to serve, not ponder. Most of the audience finds this unrelatable. I, who have been at the whims of a few directors & producers & overall goose steppers, do not. I have frequently been on the giving & receiving end of, “It’s not personal; it’s just business” tag line. But episode 6 is coming up, penned & directed by Whedon. Reilly says that they are going to back off on the notes & “let Joss be Joss”. Dancing in the fandom. Finally!

After ‘Man on the Street’ , which I thought was one of the tightest Joss scripts ever, Dollhouse became progressively better but still inconsistent. Mo Ryan of the SanFran Chronicle recently said that she prefers a show that will have a few C episodes mixed in with outstanding A episodes rather than a show that will constant deliver B’s. I would too. But it’s frustrating to watch.

The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 – arguably the best episode of the entire series – won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone!

But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.

Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.

The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.

So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.

If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.

Fucking frustrating, right?

Why, was this some sort of surprise?

Of course Dollhouse was going to be canceled.

Amazing.

Joss, call me! I have a way more interesting concept than Dollhouse that you can produce – and even cast Summer and Eliza in! What’s not to like? Hell, I even have roles we can cast Lena Headey and Thomas Dekker in and get all the TSCC fans back! If Leverage doesn’t get a third season, I even have a role we could cast Christian Kane in!

I’d argue that those in the anti-camp also include those who a) saw Season 1 ads but didn’t tune and b) those who watched the premiere but didn’t return and c) those who watched out of loyalty to certain performers (I’m guessing Penkitt has his fans, I know Eliza does) but weren’t particularly fans of the writing or subject manner.

But opinions are just opinions – everybody’s got their own and everybody’s, unless they’re in a position of power, are worthless to everyone but themselves & anyone they can get to listen to them.

Yes it is a great site but I come here for the factual information splendidly presented by Robert, Bill and by a limited number of posters.

-/- pisher: 38
-/- XFEver: 23
+/O UH: 13
+/O usedtolovecoco: 7
O/O Harold: 6
+/+ shelly: 6
+/+ Budo: 6
O/O Dan: 6
+/O squiggleslash: 5
O/O Bill Gorman: 5

I posted two interpretations of opinions, since categorizing them was subjective — in particular, it was generally clear to me who didn’t like Whedon/Dollhouse, but it was unclear whether certain people were in favor of Whedon/Dollhouse (e.g., comments like “oh well, but no one really expected S3″. The first category is taking a very generous view of who is in favor of DH (not necessarily Whedon) which includes comments such as: “I love Joss’s creations but they are just not suited for the mainstream.” whereas the second category considers these neutral. + are favorable to JW/DH, – unfavorable, and O neutral.

If you feel as if I miscategorized you, feel free to respond.

Interpretations of the above information can vary, but, for my purposes, I would like to suggest that on TVBTN the general feeling is that board postings are not being overwhelmed by vocal pro-Whedon minorities, but, perhaps, the reverse is true. Indeed the 1 top anti-Whedon poster exceeds the combined top 5 generously assigned pro-Whedon posters (but barely).

Since I would count myself as a fan of Whedon, and, for pisher and Robert’s sake, then: “I apologize if some Whedon fans have been mean to you, Robert.” On the other hand, I never post on or read Whedonesque, so I can’t really speak for them. But that is the whole point of contention isn’t it? Is it fair to take the entirety of a particular fandom and make them responsible for a subgroup’s actions — particularly the more extreme categories? I know that, regardless of whether or not they are “extreme”, their opinions can be hurtful and so I sincerely do want to show Robert my support (but I think he also recognizes that he has the support of quite a number of Whedon fans just from reading his message board and has pretty tough skin, as most people who run websites in “heated” areas would). Perhaps more sincerely, though, I echo my earlier statement in saying thanks to Rob, Bill, and all else involved in providing such a great site.

And really, all these TSCC fans can’t use a remote control? Are they that dumb as a group?

Well given their comments on the internet over the past six months, that’s a distinct possibility.”

I was/am a huge TSCC fan. I intentionally watched Dollhouse after TSCC even though I thought it was just an ok show because I wanted to support the pairing of the two shows in hopes that others would do the same, and both shows could be saved. I know a lot of other people who did the same.

Dollhouse improved on TSCC’s ratings because, in addition to Dollhouse fans, there were TSCC fans that were tuning in to support the show. Once TSCC ended, Dollhouse numbers lowered to the true Dollhouse fanbase as angry TSCC viewers stopped watching. And Dollhouse’s numbers have continued on their downward spiral since. TSCC is not responsible for Dollhouse’s better ratings in the first season, but they did give them a nice boost.

Well, at the risk of being offensive, I’m going to say you’re in error.

Check your figures. Dollhouse improved on TSCC’s even worse lead-in figures, most nights they were paired together.

And really, all these TSCC fans can’t use a remote control? Are they that dumb as a group?

Well given their comments on the internet over the past six months, that’s a distinct possibility.

Do you really want that? Do you?”

Yeah, all true. You have a chance of getting merchandising, but at its premiere it got 4.7 million, after a blitz, and in less than a season’s worth of episodes (adding them both together), the figure had halved.

And the fanbase… The only bigger nuts are the TSCC crowd.

Do you really want that? Do you?

He really can. I hope some network person watched the show enough to pick that up, and hires him.

As far as acting jobs go, his was one of the hardest in the business: to be a different character every week and make it believable, along with his core character, and he’s just amazing. He’s like a method actor, he inhabits his characters that well.

If only the leads of the show were half as good as him, the show might have WAIT STOP DON’T QUOTE THIS FOR THE BINGO CARD I TAKE IT BACK

I recall Dan making several predictions before the Fall Season had yet begun. He’s been quite quite accurate overall, rather impressively imo, but I truly recall that he mentioned that Hank and Modern Family would be canceled to allow for a one hour block of “The Middle” and “Cougar Town”. Thus allowing ABC to schedule 2 two-hour dramas at on Wednesdays in addition to the one-hour comedy block that those shows would have made up.

I certainly haven’t seen him mention that in awhile, but considering how firmly he backed the idea back around August and/or early September then it’s omission very much stood out to me when he asked that question.

“Theres only 1 noticeable series not cancelled yet thats not on this list? Anyone wanna take a guess on what it is?”

You mentioned more than once that Modern Family was going to be canceled early. Obviously it’s not on the list.

Btw I was only citing other syndicated shows as examples of first-run syndications of previously-failed shows. I definitely wasn’t comparing Dollhouse’s ratings to Gunsmoke or Star Trek (I’d like to think I’ve learned enough about the way ratings work from here not to do that!)

too bad i liked this show

what are the chances it could be picked up by another channel?

(crickets in the background)

yeah thats what i thought

too bad with fringe on the down slope im worried about that show too
if i like a show odds are it gets canceled
grr arrrgh

OK, we were wrong then.

Better late than never?

That’s a smart, very apt way of putting it. That’s a lot of what I felt week after week when I watched: even when the show wasn’t offending me, even when Tahmoh wasn’t boring me, even when the show was ostensibly firing on all cylinders, it never really held my interest. The basic premise/setting just wasn’t something I wanted to revisit every week. I tuned in for Eliza Dushku originally and then found that I just didn’t want to see her in this vehicle. I do hope she, along with Olivia Williams and Enver Glokaj (sp?) all land on their feet somewhere. Especially Enver, the dude can act.

I think the earliest that CBS will (officially) cancel Three Rivers is next Monday, after the ratings come in for the Very Special Episode with Mandy Patinkin.

Whedon will rise again.
And then again.
and again.
etc.

However, there’s no getting around the fact that Whedon has had three projects in a row turn sour on him–Firefly, Serenity, Dollhouse. You can say Serenity was just an extension of Firefly’s failure, but different medium, different studio, different failure.

He needs to stop doing ten different things at once. No more comic books, no more movie scripts (his writing/directing style will never work on the big screen)–come up with a solid show idea, let somebody else cast it (he sucks at casting), spend a long time on the early scripts, and settle for a realistic budget on a network that can accept the size audience he can attract now.

Or he can go the self-producing for the web route–I just don’t think that’s going to satisfy him. Or keep him living in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

He’s too scattered, as a writer and a producer. He needs to tackle the next major project as if it’s his very last one. Because it could be.

The show is there to support the network, not the other way around. People actually spent years afterwards saying CBS started going downhill once they canceled Gunsmoke. And they didn’t even have an internet then. I bet there were people peeved about My Mother the Car getting canceled–we just don’t have any angry tweets from those twits.

Simply because a given show was getting such and such ratings when it was canceled doesn’t mean it would be getting the same ratings FOREVER. Fact is, the networks are gradually losing audience to cable and other diversions, and the canceled shows people moan about would be doing even worse than what’s on now. That’s why they got canceled.

And every single one of these shows people moan about came into being because SOMEBODY ELSE’s favorite show got canceled.

DH may not have had 20 seasons, but it had 23 episodes, and that’s more than enough to tell a story. Not anyone’s fault but Whedon’s that the story was told so badly.