Hi. This is a message to all you fellow TV show fans out there, and in particular to the fans of Dollhouse and TSCC, two shows that I have some knowledge about. Sadly, I didn’t stumble upon this thread:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/09/14/true-blood-wins-best-new-show-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-best-drama-in-twop-tubey-awards/27095
until it was closed for comments, so this thread right here will have to do. What concerns me is the frequent apparent malice towards fans of the “other” show that is voiced in the comments in various threads: fans of TSCC are called “crazy” because they’re passionate, and both sides accuse each other of being unintelligent, either overtly or covertly, by commenting on how intelligent or smart “their” show is (as opposed to the other). The overall impression is that a disturbing number of comments are more concerned with trashing other fans than actually saying something of substance. And it can’t just be a simple matter of frustration about one’s favourite show being cancelled, because if so why were the fans of Dollhouse that happened to dislike TSCC so downright mean to the grieving fans of TSCC, while Dollhouse still had a future, at least in theory? To ALL fans, on BOTH sides, I have these things to say:
1. NEVER be HAPPY about a show being cancelled: if it hasn’t happened to a show that YOU like, it’s simply a matter of TIME. And then how would YOU like it if someone called you crazy or unintelligent when you’re just trying to channel your feelings of loss? It’s not the fans of OTHER shows that are to blaim if your favorite show gets cancelled, it’s the NETWORK. Let them know how you feel and leave the fans of other shows out of it. Perhaps a solution could be some kind of fee financed channel network where canceled shows could be given a second chance: if enough people sign up for a season, it’s a go. Just a thought…
2. ANY show that passes the bar of being aired AT ALL, is BY DEFINITION, “intelligent”. If you doubt that, try writing one yourself. And if intelligence was required to LIKE an “intelligent” show, or if by some magic wand, watching an “intelligent” show would make the VIEWER intelligent, than certainly this comment would be superfluous.
3. Is there not then, such a thing as MORE “intelligent” shows than average? Absolutely. But here’s the kicker: that doesn’t mean that people that doesn’t LIKE them are STUPID. It only means that the particular WAY in which any given show is “intelligent”, simply CAN’T appeal to everyone, because we’re all different: You might love one “intelligent” show and at the same time hate another show that’s just as “intelligent”. Because it’s not the “intelligence” of a show that makes you like it (although it can of course add to the experience), it’s your personal TASTE. Which has NOTHING to do with intelligence. Furthermore, some people LIKE the challenge of watching certain kinds of “intelligent” shows, while others get BORED by the very same show. And that doesn’t mean that ANYONE can be sure which one’s a Nobel prize winner…
And so, to the people that “didn’t quite get it” regarding TSCC, perhaps this interview with Brian Austin Green (who played Derek Reese) about the show and what the future plans were might shed some light on it. But a warning to the sensitive reader: he does have the audacity to call the show “intelligent”: his choice of word, not mine…
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20811
Finally a couple of personal comments to some of the participants in the aforementioned thread:
@Bill Gorman: You need to work on your people skills. That attitude of yours will inevitably bite you in the ass, if it hasn’t already. But, it’s your ass, not mine. Enjoy…
@AO: You’re absolutely right about people being condescending, belittling and insulting, but you’re not helping the situation by swinging back like that. You should lead by example and not stoop to their level. About the merits of the poll, you’re iterating what others have already said but with a little more passion, and also make a big number of the possibility that it might have allowed for unlimited votes (without a shread of evidence, I might add). As for polls where you can’t vote multiple times, they certainly don’t reflect the truth either. They only reflect the views of those who sees the poll, and cares much enough to vote. Even if you can’t vote multiple times(again, could they?), are the merits of such polls really that much better? I think not. Please note that I’m not saying that you’re not right as far as numbers are concerned, I’m just saying that IMHO you’re a bit over the top when you use the words “intelligent” and “dismiss” like that: the poll in question does show one thing, and that is that TSCC fans cared much enough to vote at all, be it once or multiple times(again, was that even possible for the average visitor?). I recommend you to ponder what Schmacky and in particular Tskpft, wrote. Tskpft nails it. And yes, I do am aware that Tskpft SAYS he voted more than once. That doesn’t mean that he actually DID. The level of the debate at that point was so infectuous it might just as well have been a provocation. Also if he did, he didn’t say HOW: say the poll checked that same IP couldn’t vote twice(the standard protection for public polls). If he changed his IP(there’s a number of ways) he could vote again, b

As for why they would air Dollhouse, it’s December. The episodes have already been paid for, might as well air them to make back a bit of their money. It’s also a nice gesture to some of the craziest fans around. Maybe this will keep them from being quite as annoying as they would have been?

Also, why would Fox air DH when reruns of Bones and House get better ratings?

“Hell, I watched every single episode of Fassbinder’s ‘Berlin Alexanderplatz.’”

Yeah, but did you do it in one sitting?

Just sayin’…

On another note, I hope some readers would realize that it is futile to post here using various names because the site admin tracks IP addresses, they will find out. And doing that is really pathetic, come on

I really hope the move does Betty better, the show deserves it and with such wonderful and loyal fans I can only hope so!

Okay…I’m gonna go out on a limb and decare you a troll.

chaos amoeba: “Curiously, I think Jed wrote some of the strongest episodes…”

I agree. I think Jed and Maurissa actually had a better handle on the material–or, to be fair, the way I think the material should have been presented–than Whedon. They wrote Epitaph One and they also wrote the second season episode “Belonging” in which Adelle finally calls a spade a spade and admits that what they’re doing to people just might be a tiny bit morally questionable. And also calls Topher out on the fact that he is a kind of monster.

Oh, and on the whole Faith the Vampire Slayer thing–even if Joss was willing to go back to it, which I doubt, Eliza is on record as being through with that role. (Though I suppose a big paycheck might possibly lure her back, who knows.) But I think almost any other TV show is a more likely possibility for Eliza than “Faith”.

I want to see SMG on an awesome edgy cable show.

John dont make a comment ever again or you’ll just ruin ur life by telling lies.

Some people just go out of their way to troll Whedon fans, even going so far as to post in a blog entry under 3 different names so that it sounds like someone’s agreeing with them.

Look at the two people posting as Julia above. The first one, the one that has the conversation with Robert, and calls pisher out on being a troll, is the real one. The second “Julia” has the opposite opinion, and if you hover the mouse over her name, you’ll see the link goes to “http://none”.

Classy. Is faking someone’s identity enough for a ban?

Oh wait… they already do… that turd is called Dullhouse. Maybe if Whedon hired better writers I would appreciate him more, but on this new series he just didn’t. No Marti Noxons. No David Furys. No Drew Goddards. No one any good. Heck, he hired his own brother and I think one of the writers from that God awful Bionic Woman show!! What does that tell you.

And Summer Glau played her character up just right – just like with River on Firelfy and just like with Cameron on TSCC. It’s time for SOMEONE – PLEASE – to put her in a series that has some hope of surviving more than a season or two!

Like Firefly.

His manners are broken as well

Note that no one has called you a troll just for saying you don’t like Dollhouse.

Shows like Cheers, Seinfeld and Friends would not have become the successes they eventually became based on their first season’s ratings.

Although I think pisher probably does enjoy riling up Whedon fans, I take issue with the idea that he’s a troll. Whedon fans think Whedon is a genius and Dollhouse is cutting edge, smart, risky drama, while pisher thinks Whedon is overrated and Dollhouse is dreck. That doesn’t make him a troll, it just means he disagrees with the pro-Whedon camp. He would only be a troll if this was a Joss Whedon message board, but it isn’t. There is no “right” or “wrong” side in this debate. Disagree with him all you want but put your money where your mouth is and argue his point instead of calling him names. Playing the “troll” card because you can’t marshal a compelling counter-argument is just being lazy. I don’t like Dollhouse one bit and I also think Whedon is overrated, and I’m definitely not a troll.

I’ve posted at length (too often, I know) about what I perceive Dollhouse’s failings to be, because I think Whedon’s early work on Buffy showed a lot of promise and I’m boggled by the fact that Dollhouse is such a complete and utter misfire. I also think Whedon’s been coasting on his Buffy laurels for years while his actors and his co-writers don’t get anywhere near the amount of credit they should have for that show’s success. Without Alyson Hannigan, I’m pretty sure Buffy wouldn’t have been anywhere near the success it was. Without Sarah Michelle Gellar to anchor the show I doubt the audience would have kept tuning in. But all we ever hear about is Whedon, and how he’s an inspired genius, and how all of his failings are the network’s fault for interfering with his vision or the director’s fault for mangling his movie scripts. Now we have Whedon’s Dollhouse, which he must take complete respnsibility for, which is not only a misfire but an infuriating one on various levels that practically begs for insightful critique. Okay, I’m rambling. But if Whedon fans on this board want to leap to his defense, do it–not by calling non-fans like pisher names, not by pouting that people who never watched the show are just dummies who watch nothing but reality shows and CSI but by actually arguing insightfully. This isn’t Whedonesque and it isn’t taken for granted here that Joss Whedon is our master.

I think this needs to be said: television drama is not a choice between Dollhouse and various crime procedurals. It isn’t an either/or situation.

Please tell me you’re joking, because if you aren’t your mathematical abilities clearly never made it past grade school. With that logic, we would have to say that every other show on TV last night aired two episodes as well. Ghost Whisperer and Medium double to a 3.8 and a 3.6 and Dollhouse still loses just as badly.

Quality of the show aside, no one’s watching. And that’s why it was cancelled.

I know you guys love your shows but its hard to defend any show that lost to The Muppets. The freakin’ Muppets!

The last 3 episodes might have been good, but overall it’s been pretty bad, especially season 1. If it had started out this good it might have retained some more viewers, but, it didn’t.

I have a feeling the rest of the season will be entertaining and I’m looking forward to it; Whedon works well under pressure, and always does better work when building towards something. So really, the cancellation has made it a better show. A lot of people are going to use the quality of these eps as a reason it shouldn’t be canceled, but, they’re missing the chicken and the egg.

Also, pisher is a troll who loves nothing more than to rile up Whedon fans. Any time you reply to him you’re making his day.

Basically, Ugly Betty will get the same demo as Eastwick but more viewers. Eastwicks demo after a new Cougar Town is about 1.7-1.8. Now that its been airing after a repeat, its been worse.