Cable News Ratings for Monday, December 3, 2012

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1. TZCA

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 4:40 PM

   lol @ “…that I hate nuts that are ball shaped”

2. Lance

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 4:53 PM

   Well, if BillO is right and Christianity is not a religion but a philosophy then let’s take away the church’s tax exempt status. That would make a major dent in the national debt in no time flat.

   Even with all of O’Reilly’s half-truths and outright lies over the years, and there have been many, this one is a whopper no one could possibly swallow!

3. TZCA

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:04 PM

   I am a Christian and I have tried my best to do a scholastic and historic study of my faith. The argument of Christianity being a religion, a philosphy, or a faith is centuries old.

   In general speech, we commonly refer to Christianity as one of the major world ‘religions’. Since Christianity is the umbrella of many orthodoxies and denominations, at a theological level, it is difficult to fit Christianity in its broadest form into a paradigm of ‘religion’.

   At a personal level, for me, its all semantics and the debate only offers something for theologians to haggle over. But to knock O’Reilly as ignorant on this issue only puts yourself on display as ignorant about a centuries old debate.

4. Mark

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:12 PM

   By the way here is the true war on Christmas and evil people who tried to create it

   First the Puritans

   They didn’t. The Pilgrims who came to America in 1620 were strict Puritans, with firm views on religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter. Scripture did not name any holiday except the Sabbath, they argued, and the very concept of “holy days” implied that some days were not holy. “They for whom all days are holy can have no holiday,” was a common Puritan maxim. Puritans were particularly contemptuous of Christmas, nicknaming it “Foolstide” and banning their flock from any celebration of it throughout the 17th and 18th centuries. On the first Dec. 25 the settlers spent in Plymouth Colony, they worked in the fields as they would on any other day. The next year, a group of non-Puritan workmen caught celebrating Christmas with a game of “stoole-ball” — an early precursor of baseball — were punished by Gov. William Bradford. “My conscience cannot let you play while everybody else is out working,” he told them.

   They had several reasons, including the fact that it did not originate as a Christian holiday. The upper classes in ancient Rome celebrated Dec. 25 as the birthday of the sun god Mithra. The date fell right in the middle of Saturnalia, a monthlong holiday dedicated to food, drink, and revelry, and Pope Julius I is said to have chosen that day to celebrate Christ’s birth as a way of co-opting the pagan rituals. Beyond that, the Puritans considered it historically inaccurate to place the Messiah’s arrival on Dec. 25. They thought Jesus had been born sometime in September.

   Not exclusively. The main reason Puritans didn’t like Christmas was that it was a raucously popular holiday in late medieval England. Each year, rich landowners would throw open their doors to the poor and give them food and drink as an act of charity. The poorest man in the parish was named the “Lord of Misrule,” and the rich would wait upon him at feasts that often descended into bawdy drunkenness. Such decadence never impressed religious purists. “Men dishonor Christ more in the 12 days of Christmas,” wrote the 16th-century clergyman Hugh Latimer, “than in all the 12 months besides.”

   Secondly the founding Fathers of this country and all the Presidents of the first 94 years of the US history are evil people who hated Christmas

   In 1870, Christmas was formally declared a United States Federal holiday, signed into law by President Ulysses S. Grant.

5. TZCA

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:20 PM

   Mark
   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:12 PM
   About Christmas …..

   **********

   And another twist: It has become accepted by many Biblical scholars that Jesus was born sometime late summer / early Autumn between the years of 6 to 3 B.C.E (most probable year is 4 B.C.E.).

   Note how I used B.C.E. to be all inclusive?

6. Lance

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:22 PM

   Nice spin, TZCA, but the fact that BillO’s quote has now become a national punchline pretty much settles that “debate”. Ask most any Christian what is their religion and we all what the answer would be. They would not say, “Well, I am a Christian but it is actually a philosophy … ” For that matter, one could argue all religions are philosophies but it doesn’t change the fact that they are still religions.

7. Mark

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:22 PM

   For the sake of argument, I think the Puritans are right when it comes to how they viewed Christmas based on a christianity perspective. Basically the holiday has pagan origins that the Roman Catholic Church basically hijacked and stamped Jesus all over it so why celebrate it since it really has nothing to do with Jesus.

8. Mark

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:30 PM

   @TZCA

   Early in the evening of June 17, 2 B.C., the brightest planets in the sky, Jupiter and Venus, merged into a dazzling “star” near the western horizon, according to calculations of modern astronomers. In countries to the east of what was then the kingdom of Judea, observers could have seen the fused planets as a beacon in the direction of Jerusalem.

   Venus – the female god of love, Jupiter – the God of Gods

   I am guessing the merging of the 2 stars was a very symbolic moment(ie leading to the conception of something great) for people who used the stars as a guide to how things work

9. Sam

   Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM

   Forget whether Christianity is a philosophy or a religion ( although the answer is obvious ! ), Bill O the clown says ” you don’t have to believe that Jesus is god to be a Christian” which pretty much says it all.

   As to the “war on Christmas” fist of all anyone who thinks that there is a war in Christmas in nuts. Beside that Christmas is a pagan holiday since Jesus was not born on December, the Russians got it right even the Pope is questioning the birth date now.

10. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:40 PM

    Lance
    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:22 PM
    Nice spin, ….

    **********

    No spin was offered. You provide as an example how most Christians would respond if asked what their ‘religion’ is. And I again say as I did previously that we commonly refer to Christianity as a ‘religion’ in common speech. This does not negate that at a scholastic level, the debate is still ongoing.

    You say that because it is now a national ‘punchline’ the debate is settled. Just because a largely secular society and its media spin-doctors says its a religion doesn’t settle a scholastic debate. The use (and misuse) of common jargon happens all the time. The definitions of terminology are agreed upon by those acting in the debate, but jargon alone does not settle a centuries old debate.

    The argument that all world religions can be argued to be philosphies has an element of truth. However, very few faith-systems have the massive spread of beliefs as exists with Christianity. The divinity of Christ and the manifestation of the Trinity creating the greatest diversity among ‘Christians’.

    I don’t really care whether you personally view Christianity as a religion, a philosophy, or a hoax, and as I said previously, its all semantics to me, but my stake in this argument with you is that O’Reilly is not moron and is privy to a centuries old debate.

11. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:46 PM

    Sam
    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM
    Forget whether Christianity is a philosophy or a religion ( although the answer is obvious ! ), Bill O the clown says ” you don’t have to believe that Jesus is god to be a Christian” which pretty much says it all.

    **********

    Actually Sam, Gnosticism (the challenge to the divinity of Christ) is prevelant within the realm of Christianity. The growth of Gnosticism in the early Church was the reason for the formulation of the Nicean Creed in the 4th century. One does not have to believe in Jesus as God to claim to be Christian if they take a Gnostic view. I am not a Gnostic, but I acknowledge its force with the Church.

12. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:46 PM

    ^ within the Church

13. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:53 PM

    @Mark,

    I am intrigued by ideas surrounding the coming together of the heavenly bodies. From what I’ve studied, this is what leads to the spread of years from 6 to 3 B.C.E. (or 2 B.C.E. as you state). Another factor leading to the spread of years is the translation from the Julian,the Gregorian, the Aramaic, and the Zoroastrian (early Persian) calendars.

    I’ve read the Venus/Jupiter theory. I’ve also read that a third star was present, giving rise to the ’3 wise men of Orient (Persia)’ story.

14. Mark

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:54 PM

    @TZRA
    —————————
    The growth of Gnosticism in the early Church was the reason for the formulation of the Nicean Creed in the 4th century.
    —————————
    That is part true, but I think around the time of Constantine their was many different sects of Christianity that had their own little beliefs that didn’t mesh with others(including the Gnostics). Constantine basically wanted to consolidate all those sects into one big sect and use it as a method to gain control of the government. Modern Christianity basically is based on Constantine’s vision of trying to have 1 big sect. One of the negatives of Roman Catholicism is basically they seemed to adopt practices of many religions to make it a big tent faith that everybody could join(such as Christmas which was borrowed from Pagan faiths, The Virgin Mary is basically a rip off of Isis worship, etc.)

15. usa8888

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:01 PM

    Over the past couple months, Fox News’ ratings have collapsed which has got to worry Rupert and Roger. MSNBC has been coming on strong. O’Reilley’s ratings are skewed greatly to the very old age group, which there’s nothing wrong with except they need to be attracting younger viewers, which they are not. O’Reilley’s format does not lend itself to attracting younger viewers. There will probably be major changes at Fox soon. The first change came today with the closing of their Internet Daily.

16. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:01 PM

    Mark
    Posted December 4, 2012 at 5:54 PM
    About all the sects of Christianity, including Gnosticism…

    **********

    Agreed. I limited my approach to Gnosticsim because of the Sam’s statement: “Bill O the clown says ‘you don’t have to believe that Jesus is god to be a Christian’ which pretty much says it all.”

17. RedBarSoup

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:02 PM

    Bill O is just nuts. I know why people watch him. To watch a guy make a fool of himself. First Christianity is not a religion then he thinks the Gangnam song isn’t words and doesn’t know it’s a different language…..lol

18. Sam

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:05 PM

    @ TZCA,

    So does that mean that Muslims and Mormons are Christians too ?

    “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”, “I and the Father are one”

    Bill O is a clown, he doesn’t care about news or the facts. The clown only cares about ratings, he is the Kim Kardashian of cable news. So he noticed that Ed is kicking his a$$ at 11 and Maddow is scoring numbers very close to him, and he decided to create a buzz by acting like a clown to energize his ratings again. In many way Bill O the clown is actually a genius !

19. TZCA

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:05 PM

    At any rate, I apologize for treading so deeply into religious waters. I had just been seeing all these posts about O’Reilly and his “Christianity is a philosophy” comment that I had to pipe in that it has been and will be a long-standing scholastic debate and that whatever someone thinks of O’Reilly, he is not ignorant on this issue.

20. Mark

    Posted December 4, 2012 at 6:09 PM

    I think you can argue what Jesus teaches is a philosophy, but that doesn’t mean Christianity in general is a philosophy