Cable News Ratings for Thursday, January 3, 2013

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1. Letmethink

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 2:56 PM

   @Faith–you say my statement about poor schools and poor students isn’t true with out a shred of evidence. If you want to research it look up Robin Hood and federal funding for poor and underachieving schools. You will find that it is true.

   Faith I presented stats as to the failure of the program. You never presented stats for the success of the program in your district. I suspect it was not all that successful as you said they are dropping it because federal funding has been pulled. I know this for certain, a district never abandons a program that is working. It is adopted as their curricula and is definitely paid for. The expense for any program is up front for materials and training. Once enacted they have the manuals, training tapes and trained teachers to train other teachers. All school districts and most teachers want to succeed. If there is a program that is extremely successful it is not dropped.

   As far as your statement about slowing down the “ones at the top” you did not read my post about the RTI model. The ones at the top don’t need the program and do not receive it.

   Faith, you keep saying that I am comparing apples to oranges because I am not looking at the program for regular students. I agree regular students don’t need the program. I guess we agree on something. RTI is not impressive to me. It is just more paperwork required of teachers to protect schools and teachers from lawsuits.

   I still don’t get your straw-man argument. Your are concerned that some have more money than others and that the ones without money are not achieving. You only look at that and call for more government and more money. How is that a straw man argument when I point that out? That is my problem with the study. It looked at only one variable and from that they extrapolated/insinuated that this is why the children are failing.

   I don’t think we agree about mandated testing. I don’t think the government should be mandating testing. I hated it when Bush did it and I hate it now under obama. Valuable class time is wasted teaching to the test and not teaching to the scope and sequence adopted by the district. There is so much fraud in the testing as was evidence last year. And furthermore, what is the value of the test when many can’t pass and the government then just lowers the standards? It is an unnecessary, expensive and failed federal plan.

   I am very sincerely trying to be honest with you. Our differences are ideological. The left’s answer is always more government and more money. You never mention personal responsibility and holding people accountable. You never mention the parental responsibility. You don’t mention dysfunctional homes these children come from. How does government and more money fix that?
   It is class ware fare to look at the gap and only pick out income as the reason and then to disparage successful people and suggest that they need to have more of their money confiscated.

   Faith I think your answer to me when I asked for stats was a very good one–so back at you–if you are interested in any stats you can look them up.
   Like dd, I think we have beaten this horse to death. Have a great night all–

2. Bsotgnw

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 3:37 PM

   Faith:

   If it was only a question of money DC would have the best educated kids in the nation. When the mayor tried to look out for the childeren both he and the Super. lost their jobs and then they hired the dead wood loser teachers back thanks to the NEA.

3. Faith3

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 4:34 PM

   “You say my statement about poor schools and poor students isn’t true with out a shred of evidence. If you want to research it look up Robin Hood and federal funding for poor and underachieving schools. You will find that it is true.”

   No, you are the one that did not show your so called ‘evidence’. I did not see it on the Robin Hood site so if you would like to quote me something, I would be curious.

   If they lose the people who were implementing the program, how are they going to run it? The classroom teachers could implement the program but that means lost time for the other children in class that do not need the program so it is a losing situation for someone in this equation. The program needs to be implemented 5 days a week for 45-60 minutes each day. Also, who will test the Tier 3 students every two weeks? That would be more time for a classroom teacher to be away from her students if she now has to do this testing. In order for schools to survive cuts, they make tough decisions all the time. They may not like the fact programs have to go but many times that is the way it goes and the sad part is schools may actually get punished for it if cuts effect testing scores. It’s all about the test and not really so much about what is good for students.

   RTI is for regular education students. Yes, it is more paperwork because progress monitoring is time consuming but it is used to track students to see who is making progress and who is not. This may not need to be done in all schools but I do believe it is helpful in schools that have large gaps that have been hard to fill. If the students are not making effective progress, it could be a good time to re-evalute many things including the actual program.

   “I still don’t get your straw-man argument. Your are concerned that some have more money than others and that the ones without money are not achieving. You only look at that and call for more government and more money. How is that a straw man argument when I point that out? That is my problem with the study. It looked at only one variable and from that they extrapolated/insinuated that this is why the children are failing.”

   I never said I was concerned nor did the author of that study. All I see are facts being stated. The achievement gap for low income children is getting bigger. Where did the author of the study state that we need more government and/or money to solve this problem? I made mention, the fact that the school I worked in won an award for making gains toward closing the gap for low income students. The funds are no longer there but the mandates did not go away. Also, I’m not sure if they are even currently running the program since like many schools in the state, they are operating on a bare bone budget and there are no longer any federal funds coming in to help the schools. The schools like so many other state and local programs still haven’t recovered from the economic meltdown but will take a hit for it and many children will ultimately pay the price. Many schools have taken away art, music and even technology. Class sizes are larger and there are less resources to help classroom teachers. Those are just facts. It is really time to put partisan politics aside and all work together to try and come up with solutions but as long as it remains a left/right issue and not an “us” issue it will probably just be another lost cause.

   As far as mandated state testing, I think the way it is being used is toxic. So, perhaps we do agree on this point.

   Perhaps it’s your difference that is ideological because there is no particular answer that I see. Yes, we all know that parents and personal responsibility are key but what do you do with children whose parents are not responsible? What do we do to make sure low income children have the best education possible? They already have a strike against them especially if the parents are not actively involved in their education. They can’t afford another strike from the school system. Again, this is your made up argument, “It is class ware fare to look at the gap and only pick out income as the reason and then to disparage successful people and suggest that they need to have more of their money confiscated.”

4. AppleStinx

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 4:38 PM

   Hillbilly wrote: “…Just think if some hot looking teacher said – “I’ll go on a date with anybody who gets an A on the test.” I would have been on the honor role every year. ”

   And every other classmate too – get a number. I would be…

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXBj4TfnuY

5. Faith3

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 4:39 PM

   Who said it was only the case of money. Oh, I see the strawman argument.

6. 1966

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 4:48 PM

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ibXXiFEYuV0

7. Sicilian Papa

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:53 PM

   @

   Apple, Hillbilly

   You could have offered me a month at the Playboy Mansion and I still couldn’t pull A’s. It would have been fun trying though.

8. Sicilian Papa

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:58 PM

   @

   Hillbilly

   I’m about 5′ 7″ 190pds these days. All muscle baby, all muscle.

9. AppleStinx

   Posted January 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM

   Wow! A modern day Angelo Siciliano!

10. AppleStinx

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 7:17 PM

    who is also deeply in love

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE6t0HPP8SY

11. cathy

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 8:50 PM

    @Faith3, “There is no data showing that poor schools spend more than most schools” I give you a link that had the data. How dare is say their isn’t any.

    You restate a statement from the study and say it makes sense. That the more money a parent has the more or better opportunity a child has. This may or may not be true. Some of the best places for learning are inside our cities. Most of our Zoos, museum, children’s hand on science center, arts, and libraries are in the cities. Detroit public library has more programs then any suburban library. Bus service is free for the poor as is entry into these buildings and programs. The YMCA, YWCA, boys and girls clubs are all programs in our large cities free to the poor. Cable companies give free internet services to the poor. The poor even get free computers.
    Why don’t poor people take their children to these programs?

    There are a number of media reports that have gotten the data through freedom of information act, that prove in most cases more money is spent per student on students in poor areas. No, the government has not done a study that includes money spent per students. You can go ahead and believe that poor schools are under funded. But I’ve seen numerous reports that don’t supports you’re feelings.
    Look at the amount of money that is spent per student in Washington D.C.
    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/25/d-c-public-schools-spend-almost-30000-per-student/
    D.C. school is one proof that it doesn’t work.
    Do you really think it is fair to use MA? We are talking about a state that has the top two universities in the country in it. It has more than 100 institutions of higher education. And it has very few people living in poverty. The best performing schools in MA are in the area where college professor’s live. Wow, does it surprise anyone that the children of college professors do will in school.

    The head start started in 1965 to help child in poor areas. It’s budget in 2011 was 8.1 billion. This a a pre-school program only for the poor. What studies on head start children show that these children preform lower on kindergarten entry test than middle income children who did not attend preschool.
    How can you say that a middle income child without assist to preschool had access to more resources then a poor child who went to pre-school? The only resource is the parent.
    Teachers only 1215 hours a year with a child, the parent has 7545. The parent has to help.

    I am willing to have an honest discussion or you? You disregard every point I make. I know the government and the NEA don’t want to. Because they are unwilling to collect all the data. Add the money each school spends per student. Add in the data about what children want to a preschool or who didn’t. Question the parents see what resources they made available to their children.

    If we have an honest discussion, we may find that creating boarding schools for the poor would be the answer. I’m not talking forced but making it an option.

12. cathy

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 9:05 PM

    Doug, There will always be jobs for the unskilled. The government needs to reduce restrictions and we need to mine our natural resources. And the economy will recovery. I agree.

    But at the same time, we need to get to school and get skills. When I talk college, I’m talking about engineering, computer tech. Not art and acting degrees.

    Letmethink, I believe a problem is that we don’t want to be honest. There are people who have children just for a paycheck. There are people who have children just to have a friend. There are people who think education is useless. You can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. So, we have to separate those that want to learn from the ones that don’t.

13. cathy

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM

    D.D., I called it a propaganda piece because they could have collected the information about money per student.
    Here is a major thing that I have noticed. I took my children to free zoo days, free Museum day and free library reading programs from 9 months for my oldest birth the others. Although these programs where only blocks away for poor area very few people attended them. I see many opportunities for learn given to the poor but they don’t use them.

    Other countries spend money on their performers. But in the U.S. we spend are money on the lowest performers, trying to get them to caught up. We are forgiving about the child’s in the middle.

14. cathy

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 9:35 PM

    Ok. Hillbilly. How do we get the female students on the honor roll?
    

15. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 10:54 PM

    Letmethink
    Posted January 6, 2013 at 2:45 PM
    @Hillbily–I think that is the problem–lol. You figured it out so quickly without any research at all.

    ———————————–

    Education is not my cup of tea. You & the others can solve the problem.

    My 2 cents to save some money. If a person knows (as in my case) their not going to college, why go to high school? I took basic classes grades 9 – 12. It was a review of the first 8 years. I learned nothing (book wise) in high school. It was a waste of my time & tax payers money. For some reason the govt (not sure it it’s the state or fed) says you have to go until the 12th grade.

    Funny (to me) story about me & high school.

    Biology was mandatory. I was barely passing the class. I raised my grade by bringing in cow eyeballs for the class to dissect. I got 1 point for each set i brought in. I had a D on graded tests & with the extra points passed with a C. Some of the smart students were pi$$ed.

16. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM

    1966
    Posted January 6, 2013 at 2:05 PM
    @hillbilly
    I got 7 of 20 correct.

    ——————————

    You have more patience than me. I got bored after 7…being wrong 6 times didn’t help.

17. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 11:00 PM

    Sicilian Papa
    Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:58 PM
    @

    Hillbilly

    I’m about 5? 7? 190pds these days. All muscle baby, all muscle.

    ————————————————

    You haven’t been around lately (you be whipped ) so i had to get in a jab when you popped in.

    Just come around when your honey ain’t looking. If she reads about your antics at 1966′s mansion you will be single again.

18. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 11:01 PM

    AppleStinx – And every other classmate too – get a number. I would be…

    —————————-

    I hope I’m first in line or the only boy in the class.

19. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 11:03 PM

    cathy
    Posted January 6, 2013 at 9:35 PM
    Ok. Hillbilly. How do we get the female students on the honor roll?

    ———————————-

    If they don’t get an A they will have to go on a date with usa8888.

20. Hillbilly

    Posted January 6, 2013 at 11:07 PM

    @Robert, Bill, Sara, Amanda, or anybody who can help

    I was exploring the the site the other day & found a page that had recent comments & who made them. I can’t find it again. Can you help?

    C’ya